If the rumors are true and Leica introduces the M7 in a few weeks, would you trade in or trade up? I have a year old M6TTL. It gives me great joy. But the idea of even minimal improvements such as AE and DX might tempt me to upgrade.

-- Gulley Jimson (gulleyjimson@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002

Answers

Not a chance.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), January 16, 2002.

No, I really like my Leica the way it is - an M2 w/o any modifications (but at least a rewind lever). What would be a reason for upgrade ? I have AE in my SLR / 70s rangefinder (exposure priority only), but I really don't need it. And I never found out what DX is good for besides adding some $ to the price of a camera.

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), January 16, 2002.

I eagerly watched the rumors (and let's be honest, at this point they are just rumors) for word on what was going to be offered in the new model. The main thing I was looking for was just some more top end shutterspeed. Aperture priority would be nice in some situations, but I get along fine using manual metering. Based on the current rumor of the day, I will be holding onto my M6 classics and using my SLR more for those wide aperture shots outdoors.

A couple of thousand bucks so I don't have to set my ISO manually.... I don't think so.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), January 16, 2002.

No, I would not give up my M6 TTL 0.72 for a M7/M6AE. I don't really need AE. When I have to work quickly, I will preset focus and aperture/shutter on the M6. I am an amateur photographer, so AE is not essential for the type of photography I do. Photojournalists, on the other hand, might find AE useful!

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

nope.

AE is for sissies...haha!

IMO, Leica should have just released M6.2...same as M6-TTL except that it has:

- rangefinder patch that does not flare easily (like the M3?) - separate on/off switch - self-timer

and nothing else!

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

No, I am perfectly happy with my M4-P and M2. If I wanted an electronic camera I'd use a SLR. I just hope Leica continue to offer an all manual M - I fear it may not be so in years to come.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 16, 2002.

I must be thick. How can DX coding and AE be considered "improvements".

-- jeff (debonetkou@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

I'll just sell my other kidney and buy the M7 as well!

-- Phil Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), January 16, 2002.

Too soon to ask this question. It took me 25 years to change from a Nikon F2AS to an M6 Classic. Ask again in 2026. (BTW, there is a rumor that the M8 Digital will be ready by then, for a price comparable to 3 rolls of Tri-X plus chemistry.)

-- Hil (hegomez@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

I was asked the same question when the M6TTL came out, and I still have my M6 classics...except now I also have a Hexar RF, which has AE *plus* up to 1/4000, motor-wind and rewind, and a selftimer. An M7 that has just AE and the TTL flash I don't care about anyway, for $1500 premium over a Hexar, is of no interest to me. I'm expecting to be able to buy a mint Hexar for a great price from someone who just has to have the M7 because it's a Leica.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

when I load a roll of film in any camera I own, what is the first thing I do afterwards? I override any DX setting and set the EI I have come to know from trial and experience. of all the films I use, only one is correctly characterized for my processes at the ISO rating. this isn't a P&S audience.

-- daniel taylor (lightsmythe@agalis.net), January 16, 2002.

Well, judging by the response here, the M7 or whatever may prove to be Leica's downfall.

Personally I wouldn't trade up, but DX would be a boon. So often in crowded rushed conditions I've forgotten to set the ASA when changing films that I try as hard as poss to limit myself to one film only, but if I had DX coding I'd probably use a wider range of emulsions.

However, if I were in the market for a new film camera, it would probably be the Hexar RF. I like the idea of the integral motor mainly, the M's with rapidwinders are a bit bulky for my small bags. And of course the 0.6 viewfinder. Pity it doesn't have a sophisticated lightmeter.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 16, 2002.

even if an M7 is released, it's reliability/quirks will remain an unknown for a while. the M6/M6TTL are known workhorses. if the M7 is receiving praise after a year of being out, i may upgrade. if not, i will not be upset because i am totally happy with my M6TTL.

-- Tristan Tom (emulsion71@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

Never say never.

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

I agree with George. Let's wait and see what the putative M7 really has or does not have. My prescription is simple: Relax, take a few deep breaths, and we will re-assess once the camera is released. Knowing human nature, 50% of us will upgrade and 50% will never do it as we are a stubborn/contrarian lot!! (8>))--Albert

-- Albert Knapp MD (albertknappmd@mac.com), January 16, 2002.

I won't trade in my M6 TTL for the M7, but I may consider adding one at the point I buy another M body.

There does seem to be a great deal of skepticism about this new model though. Why not wait to see the M7 when it's actually available before judging its merits? After all, there was also plenty of skepticism when Leica introduced the M6, yet lots of photographers found it an improvement of the M2/M3/M4 models. I think it's great that Leica is giving us more options, which takes little (if anything) away from those preferring the manual models.

-- Ken Prager (pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), January 16, 2002.

Once the rumored M7 actually appears, I'll likely review its new features to see how accurate "Deep Throat's" report was. If the features are better than those he/she described, I'd certainly consider it for a second body. Otherwise, I'm more likely to buy another M6 TTL in a different color.

The only thing that really bothers me about the M6 TTL is the slow sync speed. If the M7 is greatly improved in that area, contrary to Deep Throat's report, I'd be far more enthusiastic about the M7. AE is of marginal interest to me in what I use the Leica for. In situations where that (AE) would be of great interest, I'm more likely to use the F5 or the D1 with more robust automated features (exposure, focus, real fill-flash, etc.).

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), January 16, 2002.

Considering I'd have to sell off my two M3s and a lens or two in order to afford an M7 (with extra "feautures" I would neither need nor use), I don't expect to be getting one.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), January 16, 2002.

The great thing about the M series - even the M6 TTL is that you as the photographer have a great deal of control over how the shot will be taken. I've no objection to one or two improvements in ergonomics and functionality but for me, my M6 TTL is just right for what I need. I'm actually interested in what comes out of the camera and do not think that auto focus or full auto exposure (with a noisy shutter?) will make much difference to me.

If the rumored M7 is indeed launched with additional electronic bells and whistles, a lot of people are going to ask some pretty penetrating questions about the cost and the incremental value derived.

-- Phil Allsopp (pallsopp42@attbi.com), January 16, 2002.

The reason why I bought a M6 was to have a simple manual camera.

Cameras with too many buttons cause me to have to reread their operating instructions, if I don't take pics after a lapse. Soon one realises all the buttons ain't necessary. They profess to give you more control in the creation of a pic but actually all you need is a brain and a decent manual camera ! The M6 is so easy to use, just one look and you know how to go about it, self explanatory.

I the M becomes more electronic I might go the other way further and buy a Leica O for more brain stimulation/challenge.

It is fun to use a simple manual camera and outperform friends with gizmo cameras.

-- Yip (koklok@krdl.org.sg), January 16, 2002.

Mike,

You're taking the wrong approach here. You have a good soul - it should fetch a good price. Simply sell it like the rest of us have to afford the new toys. (lol)

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), January 16, 2002.

To me, the M7 is the most radical change yet in the M series. I suspect that it's aimed more at exising M owners than was the case with previous model introductions except, maybe, for the M6, which offered built-in light metering. The M6 and, soon, the M7 offer genuine reasons to upgrade. Other past new models offered minor (or even questionable) improvements over their predecessors, which I think is why there's such a diversity of opinion as to which M model is the best.

As to AE, it's fine when you have to take a hurried shot but it can also be a curse, IMHO. If you don't remember to take a reading from a suitable "18% grey" part of the view and lock it for _every_ shot, your exposures can be all over the place. Manual is actually far easier to use effectively.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

The true value in the M Leicas is that they are similar to a real musical instrument in construction and usage. Being all mechanical, the interaction between the person and instrument are immediate and paramount...the photographer must be in tune and well practiced to do well, like a musician.I equate the Leica with a violin,medium format with a viola,4x5/5x7 a cello, and 8x10 and larger with the bass.More computerized cameras with synthesizers.All have their place and purpose...but for me, I like to know I dont have to put batteries in it,I can use it in the coldest weather, and the tactile feeling of precision and smoothness ...and ...of being at one with the camera as well as myself.Music is a threefold experience at it's highest...mentally,emotionally and physically.The M Leica enables me to use the threefold experience too...physically making the settings and focus,mentally composing the idea, and emotionally clicking the shutter at the right moment in time...

-- Emile de Leon (knightpeople@msn.com), January 16, 2002.

Emile's words ring true. An electric piano feels as lifeless, compared to a real piano, where the vibrations, the music go into your fingers. In the same way whizzbang electronic cameras feel far removed from my hands.

I can't see upgrading just so that a machine can help me set the ASA of my film.

Why don't they make an entry level body so people can get hooked on their lenses?

-- TW (tsesung@yahoo.com), January 16, 2002.

One thing that must be repeated - early adopters remember, all down the line from the M3, M4 to M4-2 and M6 (including the TTL) the initial productions models have suffered teething (or worse) problems. In a lot of cases necessitating a return to the factory. Yes, I know this is a gamble with any current Leica equipment :) - but with the amount of "Leica" technology packed into this one don't be to early, let someone else be a guiney pig!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 17, 2002.

I feel that by adding AE, its no more a Leica.

Leica should be totally mechanical, no motors, no meters and certainly no AE.

IMHO, any more circuits build into a Leica should be avoided, we have all that in SLRs.

Use Leicas like they were meant to be, i.e slowly and manually.

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 17, 2002.

I am inclined to agree but Leica must give the people what they want, and the people seem to be wanting AE.

As long as they continue to provide an all manual model (preferably more so than at present) then we should all be happy.

Ideally there should be an M4 (modern equivilent), an M6 and an M7.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 17, 2002.

just to add, if you'd put a brand new M3 or M4 and a "M7" on the table with the same price tags, I would still buy the M3 or M4.

but thats just me.

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 17, 2002.

No. I had a TTL but sold it. I like the Classic M6 and M2. Somehow just didn't like an "off" position on the shutter dial. My M2 is never "off".

-- Bob Haight (rhaigh5748@aol.com), January 17, 2002.

I don't know why Leica would introduce an AE M. My F3 (forgive me please) has this, but I never use it, nor can I see the need. DX? I shoot such few emulsions I don't think I'll forget to set EI. This "M7", if ever born, better run through all it's speeds mechanically a la FM3A, or I suspect there will be many unhappy Leica users. My 2 cents.

-- Mike DeVoue (karma77@att.net), January 17, 2002.

Didn't we see a quote last year from the head of Leica that "as long as I am head of Leica, there will be no M7 camera"??? Has there been a change in the leadership or was this just another bit of disinformation? LB

-- Luther Berry (lberrytx@aol.com), January 17, 2002.

Not in five years; I canīt sacrifice my Mīs endurance; canīt know what new M will bring, and Iīve got to know my old Mīs quite well.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), January 17, 2002.

1.) I'll have to wait and see the real deal - try out the AE, see what they've done to the finder re: metering/shutter display, and see if they kept the 'feel' in the shutter release, etc.

2.) I wouldn't 'change' anyway, I would 'add.' (Or possibly 'accrete'.) I like having mechanical backup. And I'm glad to hear the non-TTL bodies may be making a comeback, as well.

3.) And I mgiht not even add. IMHO the M7 doesn't go nearly far enough - it's an FE to the M6's FM, when what I need is a Leica-M version of the F100.

I like rangefinder viewing. I like .72 and .85 viewfinders (and .58 for that matter) I like Leica lenses, especially the RF ones. I like a compact mirrorless, shakeless, prismless body. But I also like motors (built-in, by preference - they're lighter) and the occasional ease of autoexposure.

I don't see any reason why I can't all of the above in one camera. This idea that 'rangefinder' or even 'Leica' equates ONLY to 'mechanical' - for all people, at all times - is religious fundamentalism, not photographic engineering.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), January 18, 2002.