Currently here in Alturas, California (most north-eastern corner of CA) the cost for electricity is 13 cents per KW, propane cost is 1.50 per gallon, and kerosun (fuel oil) is 1.50 per gallon, wood is juniper at 110 per cord.

Perference: Have asthma and wood smoke yields breathing problems.

Please e-mail me your replys and explain why. Thank you Bill Scott

-- BILL SCOTT (BILLSCOTTHOBBYSHOP@YAHOO.COM), January 22, 2002

Answers

runnning in place,, jumping jacks,, get lots of friends over for body warmth,, build a methane generator,,steal propane from camping parks,, run an extension cord from your neihbors house

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 22, 2002.

I don't know anyone that uses one and from the adds know they are kinda high but how about one of the outside woodburners? Just a thought.

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef@getgoin.net), January 22, 2002.

Propane works out to be much cheaper for heating than electric and our electric is about 10 cents per KWH. There is that smell associated with propane. Suppose that it is that stuff they place in it so you can detect a leak with your nose. That's along as the leaking propane line is not underground, then this smell additive does not work. Probably would be a good idea to go hang out where propane is used for heating, before buying a propane heater.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

Most people when home tend to hang out in one or two rooms of the house--maybe an electric space heater for those rooms only.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 22, 2002.

A good woodstove properly installed does not have a smoke smell to it. And propane is much worse for my asthma than the woodstove. We would have to freeze before we would use electric heat :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

Any woodstove will have some odor, ash, etc. no matter how well it is made simply from starting the fire, or emptying the ashes, etc. Electric heat, though expensive, is clean and better in that sense for people with breathing problems. Of course, everyone will have a different tolerance for that sort of thing.

Bill, any chance of moving to a place with natural gas heating?

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 22, 2002.

still think jumping jacks are the cheapest way to go

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 22, 2002.

Bill, 1. Propane even at $1.50/gal is still the cheapest energy around and has the highest btu's.

2. Juniper is sorta cheap at $110/cord and it's gonna last about fifteen to twenty days, maybe more, depending on how cold it is in Alturas. Take a look see at www.centralboiler.com and see if it fits your situation. I know several people who made versions of the same and it works quite well.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

Hi Bill, The outside wood burner might be a viable option. The two things I would do if moving is not a viable alternative:

1 Insulate, Insulate, Insulate............ 2 Look at a corn burning/multi fuel/pellet stove.

-- ken ballard (you@surfbest..net), January 22, 2002.

Bill, just one suggestion that I used when I burned wood, I went around within a 10 mile circle and let it be know that I would take all their unwanted used wooden pallets. I didn't have a pickup just a 84 Chevy citation with a small trailer. I was over run with offer for pallets. I got to the point that with my sawsall I could cut up a pallet in 3 minutes to stove length wood. The only thing I had was sweat equity. It would go faster with a chain saw if you don't mind sharpenning the chain. That's just my story. Good luck

-- Herb (hwmil@aol.com), January 22, 2002.

Bill, though a little pricie on the front end, if you can swing a corn burning stove it will pay for itself quickly, and I belive it would not cause any breathing problems for you as there is no smoke to deal with.You can buy corn direct from a farmer, or left-over seed corn from the co-op for little of nothing. In other words, most homes can be heated for a little over $200 bucks a year if you shop around for your corn. Wish you luck solving your problem.

-- Tim Allen (www.goathillfarm50@aol.com), January 22, 2002.

Never had one but have known several people who had outside wood burners and they were wood hogs. If you get a direct vent propane stove, and it is installed properly, you will smell no propane. The cumbustion chamber is completely sealed from the home. some people smell dust or pet hair burrning on the stove and think it is the propane. cheapest thing, in my opinion is insulate.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

I heat with propane ($1.09) and I NEVER smell it. I also have a wood staove downstairs, smell it when I light a fire. Have base board heat too, NEVER use it. I'd be in the poor house. It costs me about $55 a month to heat w/ propane and $125 to heat with wood and Never have heated a whole month with elec.

-- Laura (lauramleek@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.

Not sure if a outdoor wood furnace is a hog or not. Some people tell me that you load them up twice a day, before you go to work and before bedtime. Also you can heat up your hot water at the same time which would save you some money also.

One downfall: If the electricity goes off, so does your circulation water from your outdoor furnace.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), January 22, 2002.

I'd agree with Stan on the exercise. Shared bodily warmth, however, can be very expensive. Like when the little boy went to his dad and said, "Dad, how much does it cost to get married?"

"I don't know, son." The Dad replied, "I'm still paying."

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), January 22, 2002.

Really, wood is the best source of heat. You get heat looking for it, you get heat cutting it, you get heat piling it, splitting it, you get heat when you burn it, and finally you get heat hauling it out in ash cans!

(just a funny) ;)

-- malinda (teneniel_80@yahoo.com), January 23, 2002.

Hi Bill, We are in the process of finishing our new house and still living in the old one. We are heating both and are VERY glad that our winter has been so mild here! That being said...we have electric radiant heat hung up in all the rooms(they are on the wall about a foot from the ceiling) and a corn burner. Since we have a back up heat...the electric that we use to heat the house is on a cheaper rate. We are also on time of day rate with the new house. The air quality in the new home is SO much better than other places we have lived. We have always had propane...its not so much the smell as it is the fuel still burns fairly dirty. I am surprised and pleased both with air quality and costs on the electric/cornburner combination heat. Ask your rural electric company about some of the choices they may be able to give you...heck I have always lived in the country and did not know about these different plans until I married my husband who is a lineman!

Best of luck! Sher

-- Sher in se Iowa (riverdobbers@webtv.net), January 23, 2002.

Cutting firewood warms you up as you do it, then you sell the firewood, making a net gain of that $110. Cost you gas for your chainsaw. I know, not very useful. Insulate your house to the max -- that's useful.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), January 23, 2002.

Insulation and sealing up the drafts and airleaks is cheaper and more comfortable in the long run than any kind of fuel, except maybe passive solar.

Jim

-- Jim (jiminwis@yahoo.com), January 23, 2002.

Hi Bill, For the costs you have given the approximate costs per 100,000 btu for each fuel is:

Electric at 3414 btu/kwhr and $0.13/kwhr: 100,000 btu cost $3.81 Propane at 91,600 btu/gal and $1.50/gal: 100,000 btu cost $1.64 #2 Fuel Oil at 140,000btu/gal and $1.50/gal: 100,000 btu cost $1.07 Juniper at 15,000,000btu/cord and $110/cord: 100,000 btu cost $0.73

Note, this is seasoned wood i.e. about 12% moisture. The above is just the "raw" heat energy that is released during combustion. Some energy goes up the flue. Therefore you have to consider efficiency of the stove or furnace. Electric will be 100% efficient, LP gas and fuel oil from 60 to 88, say 70 percent efficient and wood - well say 60 percent.

Now the cost per 100,000 btu with these example efficiencies: Electric $3.81/1.0 = $3.81 (no loss) Propane $1.64/0.7 = $2.34 Fuel Oil $1.07/0.7 = $1.53 Wood $0.73/0.6 = $1.22

So in your case the electric is the most expensive and the wood (if seasoned for a year or so) is the best value. Hope this helps.

-- John Hayes (Engineer - retired) (jehayes54@hotmail.com), January 23, 2002.

Passive solar, wood back up.

-- Sean (sean27@attbroadband.com), January 23, 2002.

You can do the following to drastically reduse your bills (electric and gas) over all, I know youve heard many before, but, this is case in point: my electric bill went from over 120 a month to an average of under 20. Reduce temp of water heater. Reduce (to acceptable levels only, never above: ice cream should remain scoopable in the freezer- if its hard, its too cold, if its runny, too warm) in the refrigerator and freezer, stop using the clothes dryer- clothes will dry outside during winter. Energy effiecient light bulbs help. Maintain 65 degrees in the house and wear a sweater instead of 71. Insulate well, reseal windows, doors, vents and cracks. An outdoor woodburner (i sell oak firewood as my winter time trade and deal with several folks with those units) will use 5 to 8 cords of wood per year. An outdoor wood burner requires filling twice daily and will go out if temp gets too hot (or so I am told). If you can swing a deal in the EARLY fall or LATE winter, woodcutters might make you a bulk rate price, I often do this for my bigger buyers, dropping the price from 100 a cord to 80 if they buy more than 6 cords and work with my schedule on delivery. Also, though this might not be feasible in you area, you might consider contracting with a logging company to have bigger logs delivered at your place and you saw them and split them at considerable savings. If you do look into an outdoor woodburner, look for a used unit, as these cost HEAPS less than the new ones- the used price here without ducting, etc, runs around 300 to 500 dollars. And, the outdoor woodburners I have witnessed use electric blowers to transfer the heat, so that is specifically why I havent bought one(reliability), that and I like the light output of the stove and watching the flames- soothing.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), January 24, 2002.

How does "Free fuel" sound like to you. There are many plans for waste oil burning heaters available. Some of the contraptions are a joke on the DIY scene. On the other hand some of the comercially made products work quite well.

Quick change oil places may let you have it for free or near the cost of what they sell it to re-refiners for. If you do enough shopping around you will be able to locate a free source of waste oil.

You will want to put a water separator between the fuel tank and heater though. Some places do not discriminate between antifreeze and waste oil when they use their waste oil tank.

-- Don Denhardt (desulfator@yahoo.com), January 24, 2002.

Say, Mr.John Hayes, retired engineer -- we just fired up our radiant concrete slab. If I get you the details would you figure out its cost & efficiency for us? I am really impressed with your calculations! My husband is thrilled with it, but we don't know yet what it's actually going to cost. (We also have a woodstove. As dh says, it's kinda hard to snuggle up to your sweetie and say, "Gee, isn't that a romantic concrete slab...")

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), January 24, 2002.

I live 12 miles from central boiler here in northern mn and you will double your wood use no matter what you do.compared to an indoor stove also will have some smoke lazily floating around your yard in the breese. my father-in law also burns pallets but has some big logs for overnight.just an fyi look for a pallet making company they have lots of waste. i have two stacks of lumber four feet high by eight wide and 7 ft long that i use for furnature and projects free from there scrap bin.

-- leroy hamann (yorel_56714@yahoo.com), January 26, 2002.

Snoozy, I answered your note with an e-mail. Did you get it?

-- John Hayes (jehayes54@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.