My dog had another fight with my horse and as usual she lost. She is a herding dog and sees the horse as a big sheep. She appears to have broken both bones in her back leg as the paw hangs at a weird angle.

I am wanting to set and cast the leg myself, however can not find a source of chloriform to put her out while I work on her. Also, do "people painkillers" work on dogs??? I have some 500mg tabs of propoxyphene+ASAP which took care of me when I had arm surgury. Also I have some 500mg Naprosyn which is a muscle relaxant. Anybody know if either of these might work or where to buy a pain killer for a dog???

-- Gary from Mn (hpysheep@midwestinfo.com), January 29, 2002

Answers

I can't tell you what TO use, But I'd REALLY advise staying clear of the Naprosyn. It triggered a major internal haemorrhage in me, and I understand you have to take particular care about that with related NSAIDS in dogs as well. Another thing is a warning about "Aspirin alright, Tylenol toxic". That implies buffered aspirin, so it gets through the stomach before dissolving. It also says anything related to tylenol/paracetamol/acetaminophen should be avoided.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), January 29, 2002.

If you absolutely insist on doing this yourself, muzzle the dog and have someone hold the head so she can't swing around and nail you. Ascriptin is the most often prescribed aspirin product for dogs, but go easy on it. Don't be tempted to use any sort of narcotic on her as you don't know how she will react or what dose to give. Don't know if you've done this before, but pvc pipe cut lengthwise makes a very good splint. Be sure to pad the leg well, wrap snug, but not too tight with ace bandage, then vetwrap tape. The biggest problem will be getting her to leave the leg alone.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Asprin products have an effective pain killer effect on a dogs physiology. I generally give 1 childs asprin to my 50 pound dog when she is sore.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

Thanks for the tip on the PVC pipe. I was going to use some finger splints that I was going to cut in half, but I think the PVC would probably work better.

As a sheep rancher I sell at wholesale ($50.00 per sheep), but am asked to buy at retail. I am not asking for free vet services, but it would take quite a few $50.00 sheep to pay for what a local vet wants for orthopedic pinning etc...

I hope this works.

-- Gary From Mn (hpysheep@midwestinfo.com), January 29, 2002.

You say herding dog. Collies, including Border Collies and those related breeds are VERY SENSITIVE TO ANESTHETICS! Please don't try doing this yourself unless you really know what you are doing, which means if you have had vet training. If I couldn't get to a vet, I'd set my BC's leg without anything at all before I tried anesthetizing them.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), January 29, 2002.

Um, Gary, no offense, but CALL THE DAMN VET.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), January 29, 2002.

If you value your dog, take it to a Vet. There is more to setting a fracture than just a splint. Acepromazine is the most often used tranquilizer for dogs. However, proper anesthetic is used to relax the damaged muscles so the fracture can be lined up properly and x rays taken to make sure it is straight and will heal well. One of the most important factors is proper bandaging. Too tight and you cut off circulation, too loose and it comes off. Also getting the splints long enough so that the leg is immobilized properly is crucial and it must be completely immobilized! It must not rotate either. There are a lot of tricks and supplies used for this that the average person does not stock. For instance, ether is used to help the tape stick so it does not slip. You need to leave the foot exposed so you can watch for swelling in the toes, etc. etc. That is why the Vet charges what they do. The window you have for splinting is not all that long and after that you are looking at amputation. Also, what is a herding dog doing out pestering a horse that you have not ordered the dog to move? Sounds like you and your dog might benefit from some herding classes. Good luck, I feel badly about your dog and hope you learn more about training and caring for it. LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), January 29, 2002.

We had a little buck goat one time that had broken his leg and due to the expense involved the vet said we could use the pvc pipe idea also to set it. Well, after a couple of weeks we took off the pipe and dressing and found nothing but magots (worms) eating at poor things leg. We then got Dr. 22 and put him down. If this dog is a family pet and you care about him please send him to the vets or put him down. Sometimes we can do more harm than good in treating our own animals. Good Luck !!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), January 29, 2002.

First thing you should do is take the dog to the vet. Then take a couple of those pain killers yourself. You could probably get by throwing the muscle relaxers away.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), January 29, 2002.

If you are going to go forward with this reduction (bone setting), I'd like you to consider the following: First, I'm not a vet or giving medical advise here. Second, are you going to apply a gradual constant force to accomplish this reduction or a strong quick action force? Third, When you stretch a muscle, it's natural reaction is to contract, so if you do not achieve an acceptable reduction on your first attempt, repeating the action too soon will cause more damage (the muscle will resist being stretched with greater resistance/force) than if you allow an acceptable time in between attempts. Fourth, check the pulse distal to the break before you do the reduction and check it periodically after you finish your reduction. Fifth, do you know where you are going grab the limb at and where if need be you can safely place force against your dogs upper limb, joints, body and not cause damage?

These are some of the anatomical and physiological things that need to be taken into consideration. If you decide to do this reduction, I do hope that it is successful.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

Is the dog really worth less than the vet bill? If it is maybe you should put it down and not have a dog. I'm not trying to be mean, but you should know how to train and care for it, and know when it is beyond your ability. If you know the bone structure of the area, and the dog will let you, you can feel where the broken bones are, you could then be able to tell if you can "fix it" or not. Good luck anyway.

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

Helena, believe it or not, maggots are not neccessarily a bad thing. They hatch out sterile, and only eat dead tissue (our common maggots, that is, there are some types that eat living flesh.) There is investigational use of them going on in some medical centers to debride wounds with some great results.

-- Paula (chipp89@bellsouth.net), January 30, 2002.

You do not give painkillers to a dog, or any other animal, to set a bone, or after, you want the animal to feel the pain to reduce motion right after setting it and during the healing process, if they "feel" good they run the risk of rebreaking it!

Unless you have experience setting bones, have a vet do it, if you feel your vet charges too much, get a second, or third opinion if necessary.

I second Thumper's opinion also, you might want to re-evaluate why you have a dog.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 30, 2002.

Years ago my cat broke his leg and I set it, without help, and two weeks after that he was fine, he died last year of an old age. I worked in researchs, and where do you think, our medications are tested, before the FDA approved them?, cats and dogs, of course. I say if you feel confident, go ahead and do it. If you want to take it to the vet, but money is the problem, call the SPCA they even have vets, in your area that provide services for free. I put my dog to sleep 8 years ago, I still miss her! and I didn't have any money to do so, they charge in Michigan, $75.00 and $50.00 to dispose of the animal. I came to the SPCA, and they only charged me $20.00 for the whole thing. Good luck to you. Ralph.

-- Ralph Roces (rroces1@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

Thanks so much to those who answered me both on and off line. This is a wonderful network to receive such support.

I set the leg yesterday and she did well through the night with no signs of pain. She is quite happy to continue to use my bathtub except for the time I clean and use it during which she occupies the laundry basket. I am hoping to change the cast in about 3 or 4 weeks and will let you know how she is doing.

Today there is some swelling in the paw, but paw temp is good and she is starting to eat a little again. I am wondering if aspirin will reduce swelling or just make her not notice it as much???

Getting the leg to extend and the bones to line up is not something I would like to do for a living as it was quite tricky but very rewarding when you finally get it straight and together again.

To those of you who were a bit less than supportive, the following is the purpose of Countryside and I would assume the forum:

COUNTRYSIDE is the truly original country magazine (established 1917) serving that branch of the Voluntary Simplicity movement seeking greater self-reliance......

You might wish to use a dictionary if you can not understand the words:self reliance.

Thanks again for the help.

-- Gary from Mn. (hpysheep@midwestinfo.com), January 30, 2002.

Glad the bone setting went well, checked some sites and came up with this info.:Swelling becomes a serious problem when it causes enough internal pressure to restrict blood flow, so again keep checking the pulse distal to the reduction and the entire limb for signs of blood flow insufficiency.

Aspirin has good anti-inflammatory effects (reduces swelling), some analgesic effects (reduces pain) and antipyretic action (reduces fever).

A 60 to 80 lb dog can be given one tablet twice a day (every 12 hours) or 1/2 tablet three times a day (every eight hours). A 30 to 40 lb dog gets half as much.

Aspirin becomes toxic at doses of 60 mg./kg. This means that a baby aspirin which is 62.5 mg. would be poisonous for dogs weighing two pounds or less, and an adult aspirin which is 325 mg. would be toxic for a 10-pound dog.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

You are doing just fine, just keep checking her paws. Motrin is another antiinflamtory that you may use. The one for children. Try to give the medications after she ate something. Or if she doesnt want to eat, some milk will do. Or in the worst case, some antacids, like maalox liquid before the pill will help to keep her stomach in shape. Good Luck to you.

-- Ralph Roces (rroces1@yahoo.com), January 31, 2002.