I started film developing with a stainless steel tank and crappy SS reel. So I built a habit of tapping hard for dislodging bubbles, and now I can load films into Kindermann with ease even after glasses of Guiness. However, for medium format sizes, I changed to Paterson tank and reel a while ago.

My first Paterson tank started leaking just under the red ring on the top, right after I bought it. I sealed it a few times, and then the bottom chipping became severe (because of my firm tapping) so I put putty epoxy resin to reinforce. Finally, it broke, and replaced. While all these, my SS reel's Kalt brand plastic cap got one small crack (leak is really annoying during agitation and this stuff is cheap so I just bought a new lid).

I already put enough protection on the bottom of my new Paterson tank, but this lead me to ask here:

Do you break plastic tank (not reel) because of tapping the tank?

Do you think Paterson is worth it (despite its filmsy make for the price?)

Do you reinforce the tank to prolong its useful life? How? (any good idea??)

(for 35mm I still use cheap SS tank and Kindermann SS reels)

-- Ryuji Suzuki (rsuzuki@rs.cncdsl.com), February 01, 2002

Answers

Dear Ryuji, My advice is to stop lifting weights and stop taking steroids. All kidding aside, I've been using the same 5 reel paterson tanks for 7 years without a problem. A tap is a tap! Elder

-- John Elder (celder2162@aol.com), February 01, 2002.

I have a newer two reel Paterson tank & an older 5 reel tank. In 15 years the only thing I have replaced is one reel beacause it was sticking.They are in my mind the best reels & tanks available. As Guinness has lots of Iron & is said to give you strength (from very old ad's) I suggest you cut down on your Guiness consumption as you are apparantly too strong! Is it time to start a Guiness forum? I have a wonderfull 1974 Guiness calendar.

-- Melvin (bramley@nanaimo.ark.com), February 01, 2002.

Ryuji, I use Kindermann tanks with Hewes reels for both 35mm and 120. The Kindermann tanks are twice as thick at other SS tanks and the tops fit very snuggly without a trace of leaking and about the only way I can imagine damaging one is to set fire to it. The Hewes reels are equally bullet proof--as sound as a Guinness keg. I advice you bite the bullet and go with the Kindermann/Hewes combination. You'll only have to do it once.

-- Ted Kaufman (writercrmp@aol.com), February 01, 2002.

John, I never lift weights, and my Mamiya 6 and Manfrotto tripod are not nearly as heavy as LF equipment...

John and Melvin, so, you both think I'm tapping too hard? I've seen John Hicks saying "bang" instead, so mine would be something like bang!!! (each ! means one stop push)

Ted, I don't want to get into plastic vs. SS argument. I think Mac vs. PC one is silly because I use neither one of them, but this time I use both. Good 120 SS reel is easy to load quickly, but it's also easy to make creasing mark especially with flimsy films.

One complaint I have about Paterson reel (besides one I asked here a little back) is that HP5+ is somehow much easier to get stuck than TMX. Leaving it stationary for 5 seconds often fixes though.

-- Ryuji Suzuki (rsuzuki@rs.cncdsl.com), February 02, 2002.

This reminds me of an incident back when I was assisting with a college PJ class.

The students went into their tiny darkrooms to develop their film for the first time. We sat and waited, heard lots of cussing, waited some more....then behind various doors came "tap tap" etc. But from behind one door came WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM.

We never did get the steel lid off that tank.

-- John Hicks (jhicks31@bellsouth.net), February 02, 2002.

When I first got that crappy SS tank and reel, after practicing loading many times, I put the loaded reel in the tank, poured in plain water, agitated for 1 min, and took the lid off. Lots of bubbles. Then I tapped a few times. Some bubbles remain on film and between turns of the spiral wires. I did this a number of times with varying strengths, and I basically doubled the strength necessary to get all the bubbles off to ensure no bubbles on film.

-- Ryuji Suzuki (rsuzuki@rs.cncdsl.com), February 02, 2002.

I run SS tanks and reels. I notice that too vigorous a bang will make lots of bubbles. A light but abrupt tap is usually all that's needed. I'm only doing 35mm, but I would suspect the same would be true for 120.

-- Mike DeVoe (karma77@att.net), February 02, 2002.

I gather from your description you thump the tank down onto the countertop? I hold my Paterson System 4 tank on one hand and tap the side with the other. Don't think I've ever experienced air bubble development defects. As for breaking them.. no! I bought mine about 20 years ago...

-- Nigel Smith (nlandgl@unite.com.au), February 02, 2002.

Ryuji, if you want to stay with plastic tanks, then look at the Beseler or Jobo tanks. The problem with Patterson tanks is the flange that extends below the actual bottom of the tank is not well supported. The Beseler tank doesn't have such a flange; the bottom is molded more like a SS tank where the sides turn a rounded corner to form the bottom. Jobo has a flange, but it is wider and well supported. Either tank will take a lot more pounding than the Patterson.

-- Ted Kaufman (writercrmp@aol.com), February 02, 2002.

BANG, RAP...I've used Paterson tanks and reels for years and BANG, RAP 'em on the counter top every one minute interval; however, I do fold an old towel several thickness and strike that. the newer tanks(with press-on tops and red band) seem to leak more often than the old screw tops...progress.

Steven

-- Steven Alexander (alexpix@worldnet.att.net), February 02, 2002.

Ted: Yes, that thin flange gets chipped of over the years. I always bang or thump against hardest floor though not that stroungly as it sounded above. My Paterson tank lasted a few years, but the broken one is the same kind and make as what's sold today, not what was sold decades ago :-) I already padded the bottom with putty epoxy so I expect this one to last longer. I also sealed at the top red ring.

Kodak's 100' bulk 35mm film can fits rather well to cover the bottom of the tank. I might even glue that on the bottom for extra protection :-)

Thanks everyone.

-- Ryuji Suzuki (rsuzukI@rs.cncdsl.com), February 02, 2002.

I second the Kindermann/Hewes combination suggestion. I used this now exclusively for 35mm. The tanks are really tanks. And the Hewes reals are the easiest to load.

-- Russell Brooks (russell@ebrooks.org), February 04, 2002.

In my classes i offer both types of reels. THey get a lot of use and once in awhile we do have a problem with the patterson tanks. However, they have a life time warranty. We have never had a problem with them honorying probems.

-- Ann Clancy (clancya@mediaone.net), February 04, 2002.

Perhaps I've just been lucky. I use a Kinderman tank and stainless reel which I bought 30+ years ago. The tank is a two reel (2x35mm) PVC tank. When I pour in the developer, I tilt the tank at enough of an angle so that the air can get out while I pour, filling it until the tank overflows. I never tap the tank, mostly because I always forget. Nevertheless, I do not have problems with bubbles.

FWIW, I agitate by inverting the tank which causes the reel to slide from the top to the bottom since it is a two reel tank with only one reel in it. Perhaps that is enough vibration to shake loose any bubbles.

-- Peter Schauss (schauss@worldnet.att.net), February 04, 2002.

I can't find warranty information on my Paterson tank on the box or instruction sheet. Where can I find it? Does it cover the leakage below the red ring??

Thanks

-- Ryuji Suzuki (rsuzuki@rs.cncdsl.com), February 04, 2002.