If or when I sell my R4 system I'm gonna get an M6. Question is ,do I buy used (in UK approx £1000) or new(UK about £1500 body only if you're lucky).Or do I wait and see if Leica produce an M7 with hopefully a decent veiwfinder(one that lets you use spectacles)a faster flash sync.and wider range of shutter speeds?

-- steve bassett (s.s2@uk.dreamcast.com), February 03, 2002

Answers

Wait and see the M7, it shouldn't be long now if it's coming at all. Then you'll at least be deciding on facts, not rumors.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 03, 2002.

Mmmmmmmm,It's a tough one.I had the same decision a few months back.I don't need a huge range of speeds and I don't use flash that often(I have an vivitar 283 and an SF20 for fill-in)so I went for a new M6ttl.I am planning on buying a second body and lens so may go for an M4-p or M4-2.

Is the M7 definate?I think I would be interested.

-- Virgil (leicavirgin@hotmail.com), February 03, 2002.

Steve:

If you wait and find out you want the new stuff, you will have to put up with the wait for it to hit the market as well as the typical warranty problems of any new design. OTOH if you buy now, you will want the newer equipment. On a body, I purchase new so as to have the warranty, lenses I buy used or US grey market. Any new design M with other than a mechanical shutter will probably have some debugging to be done. Flip a couple of coins, roll a dice, or throw a dart, but the choice is yours alone.

Good luck. :)

-- Mark Johnson (logical1@catholic.org), February 03, 2002.

Steve - I would certainly hang on for the M7 news - who do you shop with in the UK?

PS Do you have a dreamcast keyboard or did you type all that with the joypad! :)

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 03, 2002.

Another alternative would be to find a "demo" M6 from a legit dealer. These bodies will come w/ a year warranty from Leica & are typically $300-500 off list price... Try PhotoVillage in NYC. Rich usually carries a few demo TTL bodies. Then you're avoiding the risk, & beating the cost of a new M.

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), February 03, 2002.

I'm impatient, and I did just get an M6 TTL new. I like it so far, but maybe the M7 will be an improvement without losing the simple character of the M. I think if you're buying new, wait for the M7 since the price difference between the two will be less than if you're buying a pre-owned M6. I don't know, depends on your needs. The M6 meets mine, I love it. Maybe if you run across a smoking deal on an M6 snatch it up.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), February 03, 2002.

Steve,

From another post subsequent to yours, it appears that March 1 may be the "magic" day, but who knows. Even if it is, availability of the new M-whatever may be limited. Thus, my suggestion would be to consider what the economics of your timing is. Is there a lost-opportunity cost associated with waiting? Or, is it a matter of "I want it, I want it!" ;-)

When considering new vs. used vs. graymarket, consider what value the Leica warranty might have for you, amortized over the 3-year term.

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), February 03, 2002.

So far it looks like the M7 will sell at a 70% premium over the M6TTL. If you are struggling to justify the M6TTL's price, you will not want to wait for the M7. It took a full year to a year and half before all the bugs were worked out of the TTL. I would wait a while before ordering the M7. Unless, of course, you just look at your cameras.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), February 03, 2002.

Hopefully Leica will work all the bugs out of the M7 while you can still buy 35mm film...otherwise they might have to change their ad slogan from "A New Classic" to "A New Relic";>)

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 03, 2002.

Steve, I believe this to be an easy answer, if you are relatively patient. Wait a month and check out the M7, and thus avoid any potnetial dissapointment during the 'product post-evaluation process'. If the M7 is what everyone is saying it's going to be, then we're in for a real treat. pity it'll take me years to afford one. And I can't let go of my M6, which I've only had for 6 weeks. "We're best friends now, and my fiance is extremly jealous!"

-- Kristian (leicashhot@hotmail.com), February 03, 2002.

if i were in your position, i would probably wait for M7...not because i'd want one...but because there should be a substantial price drop on the M6! in that case i'd buy an M6!!!

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), February 03, 2002.

It is possible that the M7 will cause a flood of M6's on the second- hand marked, but it depends how attractive the new camera will appear to the Leica community.
The private marked may be even more attractive at this very moment, because everyone (like you) wants to wait to see what Leica has up their sleeve before buying an expensive newer used camera. -Some sellers may be slightly desperate to sell due to the current vacuum - making it possible to make attractive deals at the moment.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), February 04, 2002.

Jay

Is this going to be your response to every thread and Leica M7/Corporate news announcement? It is getting rather boring...

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), February 04, 2002.

I apologize for being cynical Robin, but let me explain my situation. If I had an M6 and a couple lenses and used it to snap my grandchildren or to go to the mall and make pretend I'm Cartier- Bresson, or to amass my fine-art portfolio on my off-hours from a lucrative day-job, I might be jumping for joy at the thought of a new M7 with *gasp* AE, or a couple new lenses, or maybe a re-issue of a 70 year-old LTM with ostrich hide and gold plate. But I have an *enormous* investment in Leica equipment, both M and R, and it is for most purposes my preferred system. I love using it, it looks good and feels good and so it helps me shoot better. I don't want to part with it. But right now there is a flood of top-end pro Nikon and Canon bodies hitting and then languishing on the second-hand market, casualties of what is starting to look like a mass exodus to digital. I am seriously concerned for the value of my investment in Leica equipment. I don't care if Leica announces a 12 megapixel M/R body at the PMA show. I just want to know they aren't taking the same condescending, contrarian attitude toward digital as they have toward AF, Smart Flash, Image Stabilization and other technological advances. Because Leica users may have the choice to eschew those features, but we will not have the deciding vote as to whether film and processing will remain viable and for how long. I can not risk spending $2500 or whatever on a new film body, or more lenses, unless it is clear that Leica has plans underway to keep the M and R line viable with digital backs or bodies. And I have no choice but to consider their silence on the issue as a tacit admission that they have no such plan.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 04, 2002.

Jay, surely many of us like the M because it is NOT digital and takes good old film! I really believe 35mm film will ALWAYS be available just as Cine or Betamax is nowadays! I am no Luddite - I use a digital camera frequently but I think the secondhand Leica market is way different to Canon/Nikon etc - it is very, very difficult to envisage Leica M secondhand values plummeting in the forseable future.

What with the TTL, Tri-Elmar, re-build of most lenses and M7 on the way Leica have never moved so fast since the M3 was introduced!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 04, 2002.

Ok Jay

I am not quite sure really what all the new digital stuff coming on the market really has to do with it. Your M and R stuff still takes the same pictures that it always has done, all the new digital stuff makes no difference to that. I see it more as a question that the digital age is generating wants that are 80% irrational (luddites, out of date, obsolete are the kind of words you find) and 20% logical. To be honest it might be much more sensible at your age (no insult intended) to stick with silver photography anyway as you must have a pile of images around that are analog and will remain so. Why not stick with it -- five years ago you were quite happy with it? If you were a young 20 year old or a pro with hoards of clients clamoring for digital output then I might see your point and the pressing logic will be there. I think you are panicking and worrying that you cannot spend another $x,000 on a new Leica lens as they might no longer be in business or that it is non digital. In that case you can just buy Canon or Nikon (which is what you are doing). I am not sure I get why the panic? Do you really think that film will all be scrapped in, say five years? I can't see it. You may be worrying about the financial health of Leica Camera AG which might indeed be affected by the digital furor, but I don't think that is it. As I say the value of your equipment should still be the same to you as on the day you bought it really even if the monetary value is not. Even if you think of the monetary value of the Leica stuff you own -- did you ever plan to sell it off anyway one day in the predigital age? I doubt it. What seems to be worrying you is that you feel that you might have to sell it off to buy a digital kit. Do you really think that digital is going to answer all your wants about photography and therefore completely invalidates all the many years you have put into acquiring your extensive Leica collection? I don't really understand. Personally I tend to see the digital camera age as just yet another money sink that has really only marginal real life advantages over conventional photography. A good option I would have thought would be to buy a very good scanner such as an Imacon and continue to use film. You can then use your backlog of images and you don't have to worry about instantly obsolete digital cameras. It is all largely a state of mind this digital stuff.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), February 04, 2002.

Thanks for the response guys,looks like march 1st could be decision day. P.S. hands up who wants a nice R4s!

-- steve (s.s2@uk.dreamcast.com), February 04, 2002.