Early February news and discussion

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

Answers

There are some entries for the first couple of days of February on the last thread, please remember to check them.

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

Maureen: As far as I can figure...the board is bound by the contract with Hal...If they could buy him out, that would be a mutual agreement. Shy of that...they would have to find a way to bring "charges" or find him insorbordinate to the baord and then prove their case in hearings. The hearing could, if the Super wants it, be public. The last time this fight happened in Onteora I have been told it cost more than $100,000...not to speak to the disruption, lack of attention to the running of the district, etc...divisiness???...whooowee! Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 03, 2002

When and who, Tobe? I'm curious. I enjoyed the meeting very much. Thank you Meg and Tobe for your hospitality.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

In the 1970's (I believe) there was a move to get rid of then Superintendent Marlowe. the board "power block" (that's what they were known as) tried him on many charges...he was vindicated, they moved to remove him anyway...the Commissioner was petitioned, he said, "No way", and ordered back pay and merit pay saying he had done such an outstanding job...That being said, Marlowe was not very popular, but the "power block" went over-board and even went so far as to physically bar him from his office... I vagualely recall it from the press coverage, but Meg has talked with one ex-board member who confirms the divise and expensive nature of it all. T.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

In the 1970's (I believe) there was a move to get rid of then Superintendent Marlowe. the board "power block" (that's what they were known as) tried him on many charges...he was vindicated, they moved to remove him anyway...the Commissioner was petitioned, he said, "No way", and ordered back pay and merit pay saying he had done such an outstanding job...That being said, Marlowe was not very popular, but the "power block" went over-board and even went so far as to physically bar him from his office... I vagualely recall it from the press coverage, but Meg has talked with one ex-board member who confirms the divise and expensive nature of it all. T. PS If I have it roight, chief curmudgeon and Doan supporter Sam Mercer may have been on the board during that time...don't know where he stood on the issues.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

That'd be interesting to verify.Does the library do old woodstockx?I guess what I needed to clarify is that all charges would have to go before the Commisioner first?or after some kind of public hearing?I had never heard JD speak so directly to the issue of removal of Hal as he did on the Mercer tape.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I don't think charges go to Commissioner first...I think charges/then hearings/then appeals...old Wood. Times MAY be in library...not sure...Meg is not here now, but we (you??? me???) can ask her when the events took place to narrow down the search a bit Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Tobe just wanted to let you know I picked up DBA forms in town and will meet Jim and Valerie to get the bank thing together. I have other biz at the Kingston courthouse so it's easy enough.Also Jim has some old WoodstkX re removal of Marlowe so I'll look into that.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I did some research into this matter last year. The case against the rogue board and Marlowe started around 1975, by board member Edna Hoyt of all people, and was reported in the Freeman 6/27/75, through 6/24/76. Mercer was on the board during this time and Skip Weidner was on the board at this time. The merit pay is mentioned on 6/18/76. It is a long and tedious process to find the articles. It involves going through each edition of the paper on microfiche at the Kingston Library.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Thanks to all for inviting me to the meeting on Saturday, and especially to Meg and Tobe for your hospitality. I look forward to contributing in whatever way I can to the overall effort, and specifically in coming up with a slate of candidates that can win, and finally bring some sanity, positivity, and clarity to the school board.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Welcome Neil! This BBS is so much fun!

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

At Maureen's diligent yet gentle urging we are setting up a dba for SOS which will enable us to be able to have contributions made to SOS. This should be all taken care of by week's end. One downside is that it makes us a higher profile for any litigation which means I need to see and approve any material which is distributed in the name of SOS. Just a precaution but in this environment a necessary one.

Thanks to everyone for a nice meeting and for Meg and Tobe for their generous hospitality. The February 16 meeting is looking for a location. I tried the Olive library but they shy away from anything political and the event needs to be public at the least. Any ideas??

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Hold on a minute. I'm not sure I want the diligent yet gentle responsibility.We have the opportunity to think about this before we go any further.Sorry if I hustled you . It makes sense to me, but I,m not sure there was any consensus about it..Perhaps interested parties have opinions of their own and would like to comment .and it may be appropriate to find out any legal implications that you may not be comfortable with.FYI the above refers to filing a DBA for SOS and inviting people to write checks to the organization, instead of individuals. I can hold of ffiling that tomorrow and wait for approval.Respondayvoo.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Geez, Maureen you're sooo sensitive! :-)

No - I think it's OK unless anyone can give a good reason not to go ahead with it.

Hi Neil - Welcome aboard!

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

How about meeting at Olive Town Hall?

If there are any liability concerns (and they could well be avlid concerns, given the givens) perhaps we SHOULD consider incorporating..I know it cots more, etc., but I bet we can find a friendly pro-bono lawyer to help with the form (it's not hard!) and I know just among ourselves we can do the $$$ part... Tobe

PS Welcome Neil....

And, for those unable to come to the meeting tonight (Monday Feb 4th) need I say that they voted 4-3 to go ahead with hiring a new law firm to investigate??? At $165 per hour...no cap placed on it...open ended...except Joe wants it in a hurry.

Then Marty read a request from Joe, who complained his eyes hurt when there's a flash photo taken. Marty tried to Ok Joe's request to have no flash photos (trying to stop Beth's great photos) Beth said she planned on continuing to take photos as needed...She shot a flash photo, Joe asked to have her removed. Tom pointed out we have no policy about this, and it should be a board decision, not just Joe...It'll be on the agenda for next meeting...anyone else think he should bring a doctor's note proving he's light sensitive?? He claimed it was a health and safety issue to bar flashes. How about a pair of sunglasses with his name Trustee Joe Doan, PE on them?

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Maybe we should sit a lump of kryptonite on one of the front seats and see if he reacts to that too?

I must admit to having spent a few minutes recently thinking about whether the Woodstock Times was being unfair in their choice of pictures of Joe, or whether Beth was being unfair in her choice of moments in which to capture Doan's expressive body language. Then I whapped my self upside the head, and reminded myself that he ALWAYS looks that dour, unless he is gleeful at making sure some Bennett student has a class being held in a shoebox, just to save the taxpayers a nickel.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Freeman article on Monday night's meeting is now up in the newspaper section.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

At lkast night's meeting, meg asked that Wendy, the district clerk, confirm if the nurse (Pat Tiernan, RN)is coming to the next meeting (Feb. 11th). Soon we'll know, for sure.

In the meantime, be aware that Crisis Pregnancy Centers, like those she works for are under attack from the NY State Attorney General's office for a varierty of things. The article can be found at www.womenenews.org in the health and enironment section. Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

wow classic fantastic Doan to ask to have Beth removed.Thank God he's not president we'd have a real situation.No substantial discussion of the lawyer hiring Tobe? No speechifying? About the DBA I'm holding off for today Jim ..maybe it's worth checking in w/ Marino about this or someone else who knows.Sorry to miss the meeting...looks like Kemball's stuff today is old news.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

Marino made a great point about the absurdity of having an investigator search for materials about "wrong-doing" and at the same time have other lawyers working to defend the district against the same allegations....

Appeals were made by Meg and Marino to Greg asking him to vote the right way...but to no avail.

T.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

The board can decide policy (in its infinite wisdom) about what can be considered "intrusive' in the meeting...They can't bar cameras, but can restrict them a bit...Probably even say no flash allowed. Don't be too surprised if they try to forbid me from moving around the room. Once they get into this topic, they might really love it.

As long as everyone else is restricted to their seats, it's OK by me. :-) Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

Olive Town Hall needs to be a public meeting. I would prefer somewhere not so public.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

I would like to use some of the online reply to today's article in the Freeman regarding the use of flash photography to reply in a real letter to the editor. I want to use the comparison to the Woodstock access station taping. Who wrote the online reply??

Neil Eisenberg has indicated that the Pontiacs would be able to play an SOS benefit at the Boiceville Inn. He already asked Parete about it. I am suggesting the dates of either April 14 or 21. Anybody have any thoughts this??

Hey, we're back online!

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

How will we grow if we don't have a meeting in a more public place? Or am I too early on the schedule??? Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

Maybe Beth should take some photos on negative film at about 3200 ASA and see if Doan prefers the grainyness splashed on the front of the Woodstock Times. Or infra-red? Pinhole camera made out of an oatmeal box? Many, many pinhole cameras made of shoeboxes, with conspicuous signs on their sides saying "pinhole camera"? I'm sure it would be OK for Beth to use flash to photograph them as the shoeboxes capture Doan.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

Asd yet there is no rule barring flash cameras....It will take a while to fashion and pass a policy....not that I'm advocating anyone do anything to hurt The Doan's eyes...I love the comment online... Please have this widely throughout the district...Confirms him as the laughingstock.

Onteora Observer: "Is this the same Joe Doan who sits under the hot lights of the public access TV studio to chat it up with the old guy on Sunday nights? He's not so photosensitive when hitting the softball questions on that program."

Would be great if "Onteora Observer,"(we love you!!) or someone else wanted to read this as a public be heard segment...Yahoo!

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

The problem with having a public meeting is that it always will get bogged down with issues that we have already discussed at our meetings and online. I feel there is no need to 'educate' people on the issues with a meeting. My preference is to focus our private meetings on fine tuning our goal of winning the election and that means press, publicity and fundraising. A public fundraiser with the Pontiacs is a nice way to all the above without the formal constricts of a public meeting.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

If "Onteora Observer" does not wish to publicly identify themselves, someone else wishing to speak up at "public be heard" can always quote the letters in the online Freeman (there are now 5 of them on this article). The article is now archived in the newspaper section.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

I think the meeting should not be public. Jim's right...the fundraiser with the Pontiacs is a great way to lift our heads up and show our forces. There's strength in keeping our opponants guessing. Bedsides, I remember comments way back we weren't going to be the rebuttal to CARE. It also invites infiltration. Rick has a fun idea. Why don't we all go to the next board meeting with cameras and systamatically flash The Doan! Or instead, everyone wear sunglasses.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

yes,ou're right...I'm just an eager beaver...Perhaps we can meet at Pat stroh's hosue, sinmce she did offer at the last meeting///Pat are yuou here?

The flashes and sunglasses are a rip! I caught Brian Hollander during his Woodstock Times production cycle and told him about the quote about Doan on "the old man's show" in the bright light...I thought I heard him fall off the chair with laughter...maybe he'll us it! hehehe! Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2002

Meg, Marino and Tom don't mind flashes -- maybe they should get all the photos in the Woodstock Times. Kathy, Neil -- you sure you can handle the full force of The Press and the Woodstock Weegees?? [bemused grin]

I'll flash that Joe Doan... [muttering direly]

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

Good morning from "tiresome Tobe"...

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

ihad a thought, why don't we all show up next monday night with sunglass on?

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

The Doan is at it again. Letter to the Editor in Ulster Townsman. Is same letter in any other papers? He refers to "parents and retired teachers" like there are many. I bet it's one, maybe two teachers (and I know who) and 3 of 4 parents. These people all hated change, progress, invative programs, models, inclusion....Milman one of them. Doan thinks a handful of parents and a teacher represent the whole school! They don't even know what Family Grouping is. Millmans kid was in the model years ago...today it's TOTALLY different. Every year was different...matching model to kids needs. Let me mention again...Millmans son had his OWN problems (mostly his mother) AAHHHH!

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

I saw the letter to the editor Doan has posted this week in the Times and Townsman (expect it in the Freeman as well)about Phoenicia.

I believe it's critically important that Phoenicia parents (and others) do the work needed to get information and then to tell another side to what it was like under Maroney and what it has been like under Collins...Are there no stats that show the differences...I realize that there were probably no standardized tests like we have now, but there must be lots of anecdotal information from parents and teachers that does not agree with Doan's sweeping statements. Statements are needed from poor and middle-class alike...that tells a different story than what Doan would have us believe..and he's clearly playing off the haves against the have-nots...going to his base, as it were...

I recall that in the 1970's parents were eager to get variances for their kids so they would not be forced to go to Phoenicia...and under Randy, the opposite happened, parents asked for variances to get kids there. Am I wrong?

This is a battle that MUST be joined, or his version will be the one that lives and will have people shaking their head in agreement with him.

Perhaps each paragraph of his letter can be taken by a person and the research then reported back to the group and a response fashioned.

Anyone in touch with Phoenicia people who are outraged and ready to stand up, or are they in fact intimidated by him and his loud mouth? Tiresome Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

Rachel-What's the status of your letter in reply to this issue? I didn't see it in any of the papers today. If you are having second thoughts, I can surely understand but please let us know so we can adequately respond.

I think I may like to reply to Mr Doan's letter as the Pres of SOS but I need to accumulate several figures. Mr Doan, on his letter, states that the failure rate of Phoenicia students in the Middle school was 41.6 in 2001 and 43.5 in 2000. Weren't these the numbers of a Phoenicia student failing in one grade during his first semester in the middle school? Weren't there better numbers from Frank G. regarding Phoenicia to quote? We need accurate data from Frank G. to refute Mr. Doan's comments. And I'll be glad to put my name on it if someone has the figures handy. I'm a bit busy during the day to call him. Thanks.

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

Jim- There's a S.A.V.I. (the group that I was attempting to represent when Marino read my comments) meeting Monday morning, where I plan to address the Phoenicia issue. I would love to see a letter from one of our faculty advisers (especially Mr. Iannotti) regarding this. SAC meeting tomorrow where I'll gather the Phoenicia forces, and a letter from Ava would be appropriate as well, in my opinion.

I could send my comments that Marino read, but since the gist of this comment was already printed in at least the Woodstock Times (can't recall the Freeman article), I would feel like I was being redundant. And at the moment, my letters are more or less reserved for the S.O.S. (Safe or Sorry) program, and Robin's Health Curriculum. Sorry, but I feel a bunch of those coming on.

By the way, had lengthy discussions with Mrs. Ruben today, and if the candidates are willing student/BOE candidates question/answer session is definitly on...

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

As for asking for variances to transfer to Phoenicia, even in my own limited circle of friends and acquaintances, there were 4 kids who asked to go to Phoenicia. This would have been Alison's cohort, now eighth graders. Three of them transferred from Woodstock, one from Bennett, I believe.

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

Thanks for the update Rachel. I'm just getting antsy because we had such a terrible letter to the editor day yesterday. Doan's defense of his Phoenicia numbers in the WT and the UCT as well as a rebuttal to Tobe's water test letter in the Freeman.

Again, I can't encourage people enough to write letters expressing their concerns.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2002

hey ya'll. Don't despair yet Jim I think Doan's letter was a fantastic boon. I'm working on a letter to the ED and will insert it into the thread when I,ve got it more worked out.I,m completely open to crticism and comment altho I can't promise I'll change my tack, stubborn cuss that I am. Sensitive,too. I am not sure more data is the thing.We could kill ourselves trying to outdata Joe,plus we do not want to show a lack of concern for the info this report does bring to light. That aside, does anyone know what other school districts in the area are looking for a suprintendent? I know Margretville for one, Is Kingston Still? Phoenicia is all Joe has left. There better be alot of votes for him in of Shandaken or we'll have him.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2002

The real story of the phoenicia school needs to be told, with whatever warts and whatever wonders there are. The more people will speak out about what was happening in the school during Maroney and during Collins, the better...then we won't need stats to show the reality of trhe educational quality. If the debate is about educational philosophy and realities and ways to move the district forward with better education,blah blah blah... that's a fight we can win...If it's about finger pointing and scandals...that's not our game...

The letter from the teachers etc. was nice but ineffectual. I know that some teachers are looking at test results...don't know details...it's been suggested there may be teachers at the school who have worked under both principals and who would speak??? Any know who the best onews might be? Or parents? T.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2002

Oh, and with jim's healsp we have a rebuttal to the rebuttal. Tiresome Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2002

I'm about to FOIL all J D's non-authorized requests for information, and directives to school staff, employees, teachers, etc. Curious (aren't we all??) to see how many there are...There is a "law of reasonableness." Anyone have anything to add to my request list? I'll wait until Monday...

Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2002

I agree that Phoenicia staff and parents need to respond to Doans letter. The comparing of Maroney and Collins is tricky. Maroney was respected, but I also hear comments about his corporal approach and prejudices...the 40's 50's mentallity...which is exactly what Collins was trying to uplift Phoenicia out of. It is a process to move from the stone age into 2002, ie. Mascot. Also, Maroney is dead. It's hard to diss a person who has passed on and has a widow (retired teacher, hmmm) and grandchildren. Doan problably knew this. Can someone explain to me why teachers are so scared of speaking out? I signed the letter Veronica wrote in responce to Doan and I too thought it wasn't strong enough. I made sure there was a Townsman in teacher lounge. Everyone expresses disdain and are horified, but they don't do anything! I spoke to Linda Sella. She said the PTA is trying to stay neutral...for their internal reasons. Parents seem unmotivated. I, personally, have less influence because my kids are grown, I'm out of the loop. I'm viewed more as a staff person by parents. I'm getting a little frustrated, so, bear with me. A little dynamite under strategic to butts perhaps?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

Indeed, Doan and millman are smart to chose a dead person to adulate...I have been told that teachers are researching grades going back many years...Melissa, do you know about this? Have they given up...? Sure would be interesting to see the changes over the years.

Doan tries to make the case that 7th graders from phoenicia have a hard time,and that in the 8th grade they do better, so that proves they can learn...How about this spin...If some students coming from the nurturing/supportive Phoenicia environment, coming into the larger Middle school are having problems, that's understandable, and it shows the resilience of the eduction they got at phoenicia, that they were able to bounce back after having hard time in a subject or two...in a new environment. Do we have high school graduation rates pegged to the various elementary schools? How about failure rates tied to absences in class (middle school absences, that is) How about failure rates tied to students who's family economic issues force them to work after school (leaving less time for academic homework, etc.)

Just a few randow sat AM thoughts.

Monday night is the NURSE... Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

The night of the PublicBH when P.school issue was addressed, Gorleski made a late night presentation that took a little look at test scores. Is there anything Meg has from that. I'll call FrankG Mon.see what I can get.Too late for a letter.Tobe what's the "??reasonable request " stipulation you mention. Who when where? thanks

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

I am agreeing with Maureen on this...that it is not in our interests to fight Doan with numbers although the numbers Frank G. replied with may help. The message of the campaign seems to be more clearly in focus as time goes on. It is not with a lack of concern for the children of Phoenicia that we have problems with Mr. Doan position, nor is it the softball field (who doesn't want a softball field?). Nor is it his concern for appropriate spending and an oversight into the finances of the district.

It is his sneering and angry methood of bringing these matters to the table. It has never been done in a constructive method to help the district. It has always been mean spirited, hostile and spiteful. It is because of these methods that he is largely ineffective on the board and in trying to clearly advocate his positions.

Our mission statement says that we "believe that a fulfilling educational experience and a fiscally responsible school district are not mutually exclusive".

Our conflicts with Mr. Doan may be issue oriented but it seems more often than not that they are personality oriented. Never has Mr. Doan been open to Socratic dialogue on the board where ideas are exchanged and a consensus concluded from that dialogue. His method has been to come to the meetings with an agenda which more often than not the conlusion has already been decided by the majority. We must constantly expose that problem.

The Phoenicia issue is one where I feel the most inappropriateness is of bringing the issue before the media instead of having a constructive board dialogue in order to solve the perceived problem.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

There's a big difference in the environment at Phoenicia compared to the other schools. From my own experience and then from Rachel's letter at the board meeting I see that there is still a great deal of stereotyping of Phoenicia students. There is definitely a greater degree of innocence at Phoenicia. There is even a greater degree of innocence in Margaretville where students are in the same school from K-12. I believe it is still quite a shock to go from the Phoenicia school to Onteora. I know many parents who have gone out of their way to have their children sent to Phoenicia. How about spending more time helping students make the transistion and teaching all the students more tolerance. We have such a broad district. Can you imagine what it's like for a kid at Phoenicia where the income base is much lower and he/she feels like she fits in much easier and then they come to Onteora where all of a sudden he can't even be friends with a kid who can literally have anything he wants (snowboards, drum sets, CD players, playstation). I would love to hear more from Rachel about how things are there now regarding the feelings toward students from Phoenicia.

I'm just ranting but somewhere in all of this I think I have something to contribute.

P.S. Someone mentioned to me that it was Bob Maroney that chose Randy Collins and supported him the whole time he was there. Any other backup to this.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

I AM SO WITH YOU ON THAT JIM!! by the way what am I doing about filing the DBA/ Dennis has an important point that it proves difficult to talk about. But I do believe entering the Onteora Boiceville is a huge transition and socio economics very real .Interesting to note that in 1974-75 ( or close ) the year before the Marlowe fight...Onteora voters voted down the budget but voted up a 100,000 bond to make a clear separation of the jr.hi/sr.hi. The failure of definitive action on that seems to have been a significant pc. in the suit against Marlow. Tobe I've never been able to find Commisioner's decisions years prior to those made available on nysed web site? Have you? I 've looked hard. Sure would be nice to track down Onteora's decision.What is the Law of Reasonability!!

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

Hi all...I had trouble accessing this board a few days ago and havent been on since. Just digesting all the comments. By way of update...the 14th of April is the only open day for the Pontiacs...I dont have everyone on board yet so its still open. One way or the other we'll get a band together and do the benefit...so I'm not concerned...just not finalized yet. I may bring in more than one band...and also try to get some raffle items or something like that to make it more profitable and a bigger draw...but I'll let you all know.

By the end of the weekend I'll know more.

As far as the whole Phoenicia issue....my children were in the family grouping program under Randy Collins, and although there were issues and little things that could have been better, they fared rather well, and have integrated themselves just fine into the Onteora system. Dennis has a good point...yes they dont get everything they want....snowboards, CARS!!!, playstations...etc...but thats part of life, and they are mentally prepared enough to deal with it.

Phoenicia was a very nurturing environment. My kids were initially home schooled (for a 2 year period), and we chose to put them back into Phoenicia for that very reason! After meeting with both Randy Collins AND Hal Rowe, we as parents felt like they would get what they needed at Phoenicia, and it turns out we were right.

Onteora as a district encompasses such a diverse territory and this factor makes it unique in many respects. There is a broad cultural difference between Pine Hill and Woodstock, for example, and rather than force our regional elementary schools to conform to the standards of the less rural areas we need to make sure that the integration process that occurs in Onteora takes these regional differences into consideration. This is a far different approach than what Joe Doan seems to be leaning toward, which is punishing the students and the staff of the elementary schools themselves.

Anyway....thats my 3 cents.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

I knew Maureen'd like that law...I believe in a recently faxed case that Meg got from Ms. Faniff of the NYSSBA there was a citation about a board member who asked for something like 300 "requests" and it was deemed unreasonable...there is legal langauge, but you'll have to read it yourself.

If you have a fax, we can send this to you.

I also agree that Jim's hit the theme...the campaign has to repeatedly expose Doan's tactics and the ways he has repeatedly acted...Pwople have to be reminded of the little and big examples of all this...from being in league with Marty to grab the board seat for Rose, on down...It's important to remember, although we're in the heat (as always) of contemporary fights, there is a history of the way this board has changed and the way staff and the public has been treated since JD has been on the board.

At the same time we need to project an alternative vision for the school community.

T.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

Neil, and others who are new to the board: this free bulletin board is on the MIT server, and does have a tendency to sometimes go down on weekends and vacations when no-one is there to do immediate maintenance. Indeed, it could of course disappear in smoke.

But it's a simple and useful format that I've used for 3 years and have several private boards on, we don't get socked with pop-up ads, and it's free. If it does go down and we have something we absolutely must get to everyone's attention, Jim can always do a mass emailing.

When it goes down, just keep trying every few hours. Sometimes on my machine it will show as unavailable, but hitting "refresh" will immediately bring up the front door.

Shouldn't we have several people arrange a meeting with Gayle Kavanagh, to see her perspective on how we can best publicly and privately support the issue and the Phoenicia students who are coming into middle school?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

Thanks, Carol...sounds good. If it ever does go up in smoke, I can set up another one for you any time you want. I am (among other things) a web developer....so its no biggie.. I like the idea of asking Gail K. She probably has an idea already.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

I like the idea of asking Gail and the current principal at Phoenicia about this topic.

In the meantime here's a letter I hope to send out to the editors of our local papers. Please feel free to criticize, endorse or rip apart. I need feedback ASAP - Thanks.

In the last edition of this newspaper, Onteora School Board Trustee Joseph Doan wrote that he and Board President Marty Millman were criticized for releasing figures to the press that exposed ?serious issues? with the failure rates of Phoenicia students in the middle school. But what Mr. Doan failed to mention was that the same administrator who provided the data, from which Mr. Doan drew his narrow minded conclusions, also indicated that the Phoenicia students were doing particularly well on state tests and in high school graduation rates and that Mr. Doan?s conclusions were simply unfounded. But Mr. Doan likes to find fault with people and programs with no empirical evidence to back his conclusions. His hostility and anger are what have made his methods so ineffectual and the current board so dysfunctional. He has literally alienated every department in the Onteora district with his baseless accusations and paranoid witch hunts.

If Mr. Doan were more concerned with the students of this district than with his own political aspirations and his relentless attacks on Superintendent Hal Rowe, he would have arrived at a more constructive method of solving this perceived problem. Releasing figures to the press before the board and administration has appropriately addressed them is simply unfair to the students, parents and taxpayers of this district. Let?s return our focus to education and stop the political grandstanding.

Jim Sofranko President SOS ? Support Onteora Schools

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

All the above question marks are either hyphens or quotes or apostrophes.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

Just a quick stop in -- we don't know what Doan feels ("likes"), and we don't know what his aspirations are. Make sure we don't project such things on him, just deal with factually based statements. Should we be perceived as attacking Doan, or just providing corrective information?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

I think we need to stress the devisive methods frequently used by Joe Doan, the fact that if there really are "serious issues" the board should be addressing them, but that the report which was presented to the board a) didn't necessarily indicate this, b)was taken out of context, and c)was not dealt with appropriately according to school board policies and procedures - ie going to the press prior to learning all the facts.

We are as concerned about every child's education as Mr. Doan, but rather than alienate those good people and quality educators in whose hands we place our children's day-to-day learning, we should be working together AS A TEAM to find out if there is indeed a problem, and then come up with positive solutions to avoid the same problems in the future.

No one went into the process of teaching our kids with anything other than the best of intentions. If some curriculum changes become necessary after looking at all the facts, interviewing all parties involved, and taking the recommendations of the experts on staff then so be it. Why this should become yet another platform for controversy is beyond me.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

Dennis, you pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I don't have a lot of time, so if you need me to, I'll go more into detail later.

The way I see it, students enter the seventh grade and based on elementary school, they stereotype everyone else. Woodstock= druggie (or in some cases, the smart kids); West Hurley= "Leave it to Beaver" families; Bennett= jocks; Phoenicia= hicks. These labels are obviously very damaging to a lot of students, and based on the label they're given, I'd say that the Phoenicia kids have the hardest time adjusting.

This is why S.A.V.I. students are going to the different elementary schools to make connections with 4th, 5th, and 6th graders. We kind of hope to lead by example. One of our goals is to organize more times for the kids from all the elementary schools to meet each other- making the transistion from elementary school to jr. high a little bit easier.

There's a lot more violence (physical and otherwise) in the middle school than the high school. We determined that a lot of it stemmed from the stereotyping that happens when students first arrive. Obviously, Joe and Marty haven't made it any easier for us.

I'll report back about the S.A.V.I. meeting on Monday. And I'll see you all at the BOE meeting.

(There really is a lot more I could say about all this, but I have not the time nor the energy right now)

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2002

A quick reminder: BOE meeting, Monday (tomorrow) at High School...7PM...The Nurse/condoms is on the agenda, plus oh so much more fun stuff. Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2002

IMPORTANT SOS MEETING IMPORTANT SOS MEETING

FEBRUARY 16 10AM SATURDAY FEBRUARY 16

Pat Stroh has graciously offerred her home for the next SOS meeting on Saturday, February 16, at 10am.

Pat Stroh 65 Piney Point (the first road west of the high school off Rt. 28-near the top of the hill on the left)

657-8171

Boiceville, NY

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2002

Yay, Pat. See you there! Tobe

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2002

I attended a SAVI workshop with Robin Sears on a superintendent conference day and, Rachel, that's exactly what was realized. The sterotypes and all of our very diverse communities. The group was large and we were asked how to define the 4 communities and the group hit it first time round. These sterotypes are deeply imbedded. they have some validity, but obviously need addressing and change is hard.

The "country mouse" going to the "city" is the Phoenicia experience. It has been talked about for years. When Jesse was in 6th grade, I and other parents went to Randy and asked for our kids to visit Middle School many times in year, to transition. We arranged them to have lunch up there and meet teachers, go to library another visit and walk the halls. The other elementary schools found this out and insisted their kids do they same. They did. Since then I haven't heard of this program continueing. I think the ball was dropped. Another example of the squeaky wheel, I guess.

Forest and Jesse had hard time transitioning. We homeschooled Forest 7-12, on to UCCC then Art Institute in Phili. He reached his goal. Jesse we were ready for. Supports, advocacy and staying on everyone's butts got Jess what he needed. I was very pleased when the Indie Works Program was a perfect fit...he's doing great! And then there's Jeffrey...that's a story for another time:)

There are many ways to reach a goal...the traditional path is not the only way. Neil may back me on this: School districts are a resouce...not necessarily "it". Parents don't think out of the box when it comes to school until their kid is not getting needs met, are being challenged enough or the kid is just miserable.

Definately a talk with Gail C. is in order first. I would be happy to participate. The transitioning issue was one of her selling points for making the middle school 6-8. Personally, I don't mind that idea (ahh, "r" word), but a word of caution. Be careful what you ask for.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2002