Just a thought....

If the M6TTL will be replaced by the M7 and since the TTL was only in production for a few years, anyone thinks it might become a collectible in future years?

-- Jim W. (jkdub@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002

Answers

In my opinion maybe the classic and or black paint editions, but then again I am a newcomer to this forum.

-- John Abela (jamriman@yahoo.com), February 10, 2002.

Jim. Don't bet on it. The M6 HM (0.85) pre-TTL is a bit of a collectors item because it was mde only for a year or less, but is still worth on $ 100-200 or so more than the regular M6 (0.72). IMO, there are already too many TTLs around for them to become collectible, and it is likely that Leica will continue producing the M6TTL as a slightly less expensive alternative to the new M, at least for a while.

I think there will still be a market for the M6TTL and classic, especially if the new camera does not have as soft a shutter or does not offer the full range of batteryless shutter speeds. I for one am nervous about not having all shutterspeeds available if the battery goes belly up.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), February 10, 2002.

No, there were too many made. The same for the M6 classic except for the HM version of which only 3000 or so were made.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), February 10, 2002.

Does it look like the titanium version could be regarded as a rarity? I always had a difficult time justifying the much greater price for this finish. If the all-mechanical M series is ever discontinued, I could see repair prices on them become prohibitive. There just will not be enough people who know how to repair them.

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

People who bought new-in-box M6 Classic HM 0.85 bodies for $2500-2700 when they were discontinued are probably still kicking themselves. The Leica collector market is relatively recent and extremely fickle. I for one would not be wanting to speculate in that market with anything other than true limited-edition models or established rarities. The M6TTL will eventually probably be hailed as "the last of the all mechanical Leicas". But the M4 is hailed as "the last of the high-quality-finished Leicas" and the IIIg "the last of the screw- mount Leicas" and yet neither of those models even in mint condition is fetching megabuck prices.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 10, 2002.

Why the assumption that "the M6TTL will be replaced by the M7" ?

Nikon produced the FM/FM2 for 25 years, while F2s, F3s, F4s, N2000s, FAs and a host of other more automated cameras came and went.

I expect the M6 (e.g. a mechanical-shuttered M) to be around as long as demand keeps it selling - maybe even longer than the M7.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 10, 2002.

The M6TTL will stay in the current catalog until the existing inventory is depleted. Then if there's still demand, they will probably assemble as many as they can from existing parts stock. Only then if there is sufficient demand might they restart production, but it would be the first time since the M5 fiasco of 30 years ago that Leica's new model did not spell the end of its predecessor.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 10, 2002.

I think Jay is partly correct. I agree that the M6TTL will not beccome a collectible (NIB or otherwise).

However, truly NIB never used with warranty M4 and IIIg cameras are very rare, the reason being that in those days, there were far fewer Leica collectors than today. Although you do see M4 50th anniversary commems NIB, regular production M4s and all IIIgs are very rarely found NIB. A truly NEW condition example of either camera should easily bring over $ 3000. The ones listed on eBay are never truly new unused examples with everything including original box and warranty card.

As another example, there were about 250,000 M3s made (far more than M2 or M4 or M5, etc.). But you will almost never see a truly NIB M3 , chrome or black. I have heard of a true new condition (vault) example of a regular chrome M3 go for $ 6,000 and a black paint example go for more than twice that.

It may appear that Leica collectors are fickle, based on the downward trend in prices. However, the same is true of all other cameras and collectibles in general. The problem with the market is two-fold: 1) the Asian (especially Japan, but also other countries) recession has done damage to the Leica market, since the Japanese were among the most dependable buyers of collectible Leica; and 2) the general economic downturn in the USA and Europe, which started before but was exacerbated by Sept. 11, has made many collectors more hesitant to spend money.

I believe prices will go back up when the economy improves and the Japanese/Asian recession ends. But this will take several years. In the mean time, take advantage of the lower prices on used Leica.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), February 10, 2002.

I posed the question pretty much tongue in cheek. Speculating on Leicas is not a particularly productive or rewarding endeavor. Using a Leica is a lot of fun.

I see the TTL as a flawed camera. They gave us TTL flash control which I see as a dubious feature on the M. Then they crippled the flash sync altogether if the batteries runned down. I'm still scratching my head on this one.

-- Jim W. (jkdub@hotmail.com), February 11, 2002.

don't see the M7 replacing anything w/ a list price of $2,695...

-- pat (svenburg@yahoo.com), February 11, 2002.