In the thread I did on 'modern' grammar, one person noted high school kids today are doing math (and probably science) which use to be college level. As an experiment give your teenager(s) the following test. One hour time limit, no calculators allowed.

1. You have been newly hired for a summer job at a commercial carpet business. Your boss tells you they just received a request for a quote to replace the carpet in a hotel convention center hall which is 200 feet long by 95.334 feet wide. A. How many square yards of carpet would this be? B. A week later your boss said they won the contract and you should order the carpet agreed to. If the carpet comes in rolls 12’ wide by 150 feet long, how many rolls do you need to order?

2. Your summer job is to build a fence with metal t-posts spaced ten feet apart and with four strands of barbwire around a pasture which will be one-half mile wide by three-quarters mile long. A. How many t-posts will you need? B. How many miles (to the nearest tenth) of barbwire will you need? C. How many t-post ties will you need? D. How many t-post drivers will you need?

3. What is the average of 867, 757, 117, 249, 333, 678, 495, 596, 14, 447, 1111, 327 and 938?

4. Your father has asked you how much herbicide he should order to treat the weeds in your farm pond. The pond has .85 surface acres and is an average of 4.8 feet deep. Each gallon of herbicide will treat 1,000-acre feet. How many gallons of herbicide should he order?

5. A feedlot brings in and sells 600 head of cattle every three weeks and they stay an average of six months. A. How many head of cattle will pass through the feedlot in one year? B. If the feedlot is allowed a 2.75 percent death rate, how many head of cattle would this represent in a year?

6. You have a 30-year mortgage at 9.65 percent annual interest. The outstanding balance is $58,573.15. Your monthly payments are $1,200. A. How much of your next mortgage payment will go to principle? B. How much to interest? C. What will be the outstanding balance at the time of the next payment? D. If the property is now appraised at $123,500, what will be your equity after the next payment?

7. If an acre of land is 43,560 square feet, how long would each side be for one square acre?

8. A cow herd starts out at 1,000 head and has an average 86 percent calving rate between March 15th and May 15th. Any cow not calving during this period is sold without replacement and all calves are sold in October. How many cows will be left in the herd after seven calving seasons?

9. You have a sock drawer with 13 black socks and nine blue socks. Without being able to see the color, what is the maximum number of socks you would need to take out before you had a pair which matched in color?

10. You are a rookie pitcher on a baseball team. In the dugout a veteran looks around and offers you a $10 bet there are between fifty and sixty-thousand fans in attendance. You look around and take the bet. Official attendance is given as 13,560. Who won the bet? Why?

11. Your neighbor hires you to help him dig and pour a foundation for a new windmill with four legs. Each foundation pier will be poured within a cardboard tube with an interior dimension of 7.69 inches and will be 39 ½” deep. If an 80-pound bag of ready-mix contains 2/3rds cubic feet of concrete, how many bags does he need to pick up in advance?

12. If the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second, what is the speed of darkness?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 12, 2002

Answers

I don't know if this article is a joke or not, but today's high school curricula in most subjects is considerably less challenging than it has been in the past. Moreover, the SATs have been altered over the years to hide that - this has been well documented. The math "skills" of the non-collegebound students are even worse; they can't seem to make change without a calculator, can't calculate simple percentages, etc. Very sad, and when you think about how much money is being spent to "educate", very maddening.

-- gita (gita@directcon.net), February 12, 2002.

This isn't intended as a joke. Seems like reasonable questions for, more or less, everyday life.

I tend to agree with the above poster. A couple of weeks ago I made a purchase and was just handed what the register said was the change. From what was pulled out of the drawer it just didn't seem right, so I asked the clerk (late teenager)to manually count it. Rather comical. (It was short a $20.)

(This was a supermarket. I have heard you should always count what your are given in bars and convenience stores as the bartender or clerk may be intentionally short changing.)

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

I don't agree. The college prep math at my daughter's HS is very hard. Her algebra book is almost 800 pages long and so far they have done over 500 pages of it. It is twice as long as mine was at the same school 19 years ago. These kids who are in the college prep classes work very hard. Not only do they know what we knew, they are also required to take many more classes to graduate with an honor's diploma.

In our school distict over 70% go on to college, and this is a rural low-income area. Some of these young people are incredibly intelligent. Have you been to a Science Fair lately? At the 6th grade level they are delving into some pretty deep subjects. Ever go to a qualifying Spelling Bee for National competition? They rattle off words that most people have never heard of.

Maybe some school's aren't keeping up with the times, but many schools are. Her science classes are also moving at about twice the rate they used to, and she had an A plus in that class last grading period. All of the people who don't know what is really going on in schools should talk to some of the dedicated HS students and find out the facts.

Not only could my teenager do these problems with no trouble, my 12 year old could too and I am going to give them to my 10 year old, as I imagine she can do most of them also. There are many, many intelligent young people growing up right now, and I for one am glad, because they are our future!

I get a little tired of people who haven't set foot in a school or looked at a text-book in 20 years, basing their entire perception on whether someone counted their change back to them. That is more a problem of manners and management, than math. If your schools aren't teaching what you want your kids to know, change something!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 12, 2002.

Ken, I think in general you are right that a lot of things taught in schools now were taught in lower grade levels in earlier years. Anyone familiar with the Laura Ingals books can attest to what she had to learn and be able to do in her head.

However, there are exceptions as noted for college level preparations.

The problems you have given are very similar to problems given in the Saxon 8/7 math book used by many public, private, and homeschools for teaching 7th grade math.

When I graduated highschool in 1981, I probably could not have answered the above questions. Not because I didn't/don't have the mental capacity but because I just didn't care. Now I can answer them because I have been teach my own children and have gotten a better education the second time around.

-- LBD (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.

Some information on Tennessee's educational system:

17.7% hold a college degree against a national average of 25.2%. (And, to me, one-fourth of the population seems very high.)

To graduate from high school, a student must pass basic reading, writing, math and sciences at the 9th grade level. Those who don't get basically a certificate of attendance.

Only about 12% of those who start 9th grade go on to college. Of graduating seniors, about 30% go on to college. Haven't seen a figure for how many graduate college, but there is normally a fairly high attrition rate there. Rather makes me wonder about the 17.7% college degree rate when only 12% of freshman go on to college. People with degrees from other states may account for some of it.

High school drop-out rate is being debated. Figure which has been used is about 15%. However, a recent study showed that of those who started the 9th grade in Tennessee, only 54% graduate from a school in Tennessee. Is 46% the real drop-out rate? Some say it doesn't reflect family moves out of state, or homeschooled, but Tennessee isn't a high transient state, such as those with a large military population, nor are a significant number of students homeschooled.

I have a problem believing TN is atypical of other states.

I readily admit some schools have excellent and challenging programs, particularly for those college bound.

I have also heard employers say a college degree today is about like a high school degree say in the 60s.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

http://www.pen.k12.va.us/ Bull...I have 6th and 7th grade students who could do exercises like this all day long. You need to take a look at the Virginia Standards of Leaning Sample Test Questions on the DOE website. You couldn't even begin to do the math my 8th grade students do. And as far as calculators, try using a graphing calculator that is a requirement of 9th grade math here. I would be surprised if you could turn it on. Not knocking you personaly, but you are way off base. It is easy to spot one idiot at a supermarket, but I dare you to spot and above average teen doing advanced math. You won't find them at the market, cause they are home studying. Besides,I know a lot of older adults that are idiots, what is their excuse? And on number one, don't forget to divide by nine to find the square footage of carpet, it has a specific formula. Number three is scewed, the 47 throws off a true average/mean, sometimes averages are not always a correct indicator. Number two is simple perimeter. ( a fifth grade SOL ) Nine is probability. Number twelve is a trick question, it is how fast light travels, not the amount of light. And, I would never use herbacide in my pond. :)

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), February 12, 2002.

My children are all in Saxon Math books. One is in the 8/7, one is in pre Algebra or Algebra 1/2 and one is in the Algebra 1. The 8/7 is probably the hardest to get through. The Algebra books are much like highschool Algebra that I had 25 years ago. They are also much like the College Algebra that I had. When I went to college in the late 70's and early 80's, the courses were often a repeat of what I had in highschool. I took the college prep courses in H.S. I also had friends that didn't and they bombed out of college or really struggled along. It really hasn't changed much. It depends on your own motivation to learn. I would also think that it depends on the involvement of the parent(s). Mom didn't help me with my homework, but she was very supportive. I was raised in a single parent home btw. When the kids wake up, I will give them this test Ken. Do you have the answers or do I have to take the thing too. Hey, could be interesting don't you think? We will all take it and I will e-mail you my results. Whatcha say?

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

I should have also said...they are 11, 13, 15. Wonder what the 11 year old is going to do with that thing? Hmmm....we will see. They are out doing chores, so it will be a bit.

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

Many of those who graduated in the 60's also got us in a lot of the messes that we are in today! I hope the ones graduating today are MUCH smarter. Not only will they have to face their own challenges, but also clean up all the problems from the previous generations short-sightedness.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), February 12, 2002.

Yup, there are a couple of tricks in the questions. Also, at least one can have two correct answers. No helping them.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

HMMMMMMM...... Well, we finished it after we fed the calves, chickens, dogs, cats, geese..... The boys did well and understood it. As to whether they got them right I couldn't say. There were only a few that we differed on. My daughter only answered a few of them like the averages, the speed of light, the socks, the pitcher. The obvious ones. I didn't make her take the rest of the test with her being only 11! So.....we will see!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 12, 2002.

Ken where did you get your stats from?? I would like to check out the stats for KY. Also you might want to recheck your homeschooling stats. I don't know what you consider a significant number but the school we are registered with has approximately 800 families. And that is just one school!!!

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), February 12, 2002.

Ken, post the ans. I'm going to take it to school tomorrow.

-- DW (djwallace@ctos.com), February 12, 2002.

Ken

I know of several high school graduates that can't pass the driver's test as they can't read but it would have hurt thier self esteem not to give them a diploma so they got one. gail

-- gail missouri ozarks (gef@getgoin.net), February 12, 2002.

Here are my answers and comments:

1. A is simple. 200 times 95.334 equals 19,066.8 square feet, divided by nine would be 2118.53 (or 2119) square yards. B is a bit trickier (intentionally) since it will depend on which direction the carpet is laid. If laid in the long direction, there is almost no waste on the side and it would take one and one-third rolls to do one strip, or 11 rolls (10.667 rounded up). However, if laid side to side there is more scrap and 12 rolls would be required. (Note if you simply divided by nine to get 10.59 rolls, it was just a coincidence due to the minimum amount of waste in this example. Most carpet layers would not try to patch in a number of small sections.)

2. Simple. Two sides would be 2,640 feet long and two sides would be 3.960 feet so the entire fence would be 13,200 lineal or running feet. A post every ten feet would require 1,320 of them. 13,200 times four strands is 52,800 lineal feet or ten miles of wire. Four clips per post would be 5,280 clips. Only one posthole pounder would be required (and a strong back).

3. Total is 6,925 divided by 13 would be 533. Note here nothing in the question asked about the average being skewed because of one low number. It was a simple addition and division question.

4. This one required a bit of knowledge about surface acres and surface feet. A surface acre is how many acres the pond’s surface covers. In this case it was provide as .85 acres or 37,026 square feet. The average depth was given as 4.8 feet. Thus, there would be 177,724.8 cubic feet in the pond. An acre foot is one acre one foot deep or 42,560 cubic feet. Question said one gallon would treat 1,000 acre feet (1,000 cubic feet). Thus, 178 gallons would be required. Dad would probably just order three 55-gallon drums even if it would be a bit short.

5. Easy, 52 weeks in a year and a new group comes in every three weeks or 17.334 groups per year at 600 head at a time or 10,400 head in a year, rounding off. How long they stayed didn’t matter. Feedlot might have had a capacity of 20,000 head. Death rate at 2.75% would be 286 per year.

6. To get the monthly interest charge divided the annual rate by 12. .0965 divided by 12 equals a month rate of .000804%. .000804 times the outstanding balance of $58,573.15 results in an interest charge of $471.02. The principle payment would be $1,200 minus $471.02 or $728.98. This would reduce the new outstanding balance to $57.844.17. Appraised value of $123,500 minus the new outstanding balance would be $65,655.83 in equity.

7. Square root question. It would be right at 208.6 feet.

8. Two answers depending if you rounded up each time. 350 if you did, 347.9 if you didn’t.

9. Yup, answer is three, but you may be amazed at how many people this one can stump.

10. I have been told this is a standard bet made to almost all rookies. Note the veteran said between fifty and sixty-thousand fans. He did not say between fifty-thousand and sixty-thousand fans. He won because the official attendance was between 50 and 65,000.

11. Question could have been worded better in that the cardboard tube should have been given with an interior diameter (not dimension) of 7.69 inches. Anyway, the area of a circle is pi times radius squared. Each tube would have an interior area of 46.55 square inches. To get cubic inches multiply by the depth of 39.5 to get 1,835 cubic inches per tube. Times four tubes would be a total of 7,338 cubic inches of concrete needed. If an 80-pound bag had 2/3rds cubic foot, it would supply 1,152 cubic inches. Thus, seven bags would be required. (And, yes, the piers would probably not be wide and deep enough to adequately support the windmill.)

12. Trick question just to see who was thinking. There is no speed of darkness. Darkness is simply the absence of light.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 13, 2002.