We've recently relocted from the burbs. We have two horses and two Rotties (horses are new to the Rotties). The pen where I lock up the dogs (at night or when we're not at home, pending completion of the property fence) is adjacent to one of our horse pastures.

I've noticed that one of the horses loves to come near the fence seperating the animals. Everytime she (horse) does, our male Rottie get all excited and begins barking & attempting to get through the fence. Even though (through the fence) the horse is less than one or two feet away, it doesn't even flinch when the dog acts aggressively. It just munches away and almost appears to be teasing the dog.

Yesterday, the male got in with the horses and started going after the teaser. The horse didn't spook, but was bucking and kicking at the dog. The dog had absolutely no interest in the other horse.

Well, the horse succeeded in kicking the dog in the side, and in the head. After getting kicked in the head the dog did back-off a bit, and ran out of the pasture when the horse approached it. The dog didn't act hurt afterwards.

About ten minutes later, the dog tried to go after the horse again. Is there anything that can be done to discourage the dog?? I've heard electric shock collars don't work on Rotties.

BTW - This dog also has problems with anything round that turns, like tractor and truck tires. Even had his head run over!!! Stupid dog....

TIA,

-- Rudy (rbakker@wcrtc.net), February 14, 2002

Answers

must be one dumb dog,, gets kicked in the head,, and still wants more? how about shoeing the horse? or adding spikes to the shoes? For it trying to bite tires and such,, add snow chains

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), February 14, 2002.

Not to worry, Tia. The dog will get the idea. They just need time to get to know each other and the horse is just letting that crazy dog know who the boss is. I have always found that horses do think they pay the mortgage on the place and it belongs to them...and to them alone!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.

We have a pit bull like that, she will bite tires on anything!!! And she to has been run over by tractors, four-wheelers, and even a dually once to no slowing her down from biting and chasing things, four-wheeled or four-legged.

After a year of this, we had to keep her tied for her own good, she will totally ignore us if she spies a thing to chase, so even letting her loose when we are with her is out of the question!

And being kicked by the horses did no good whatever, she has been flung high into the air by several of our horses after she has latched on to their tails and held on for dear life, finally getting dislodged by flying, well placed hooves.

Soooo, if you love your dog and don't want him to risk losing his life to a well placed and lethal kick, keep him confined or tied, the problem, as ours did, will NOT get better with time or experience.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), February 14, 2002.

It sounds like your horses have been around dogs before, they are just ignoring the dog. You're lucky, some horses would run through a fence to get away from a dog. You're also lucky the horses are yours and not your neighbors. Lots of neighbors would shoot a dog for doing that. If the dog still does it after getting kicked, I'd replace him with a smart dog. Best of luck!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.

It could be that the male is a very dominant personality and veiws the horse as challenging him. It also sounds like he has a very very high prey drive. The Rotties I have been around are very persistant and determined so you may have a long haul on your hands. Can you run a hot wire inside the dogs' pen to keep them away from the fence some? I hope you find something that works before one or both of the animals end up injured.

-- Trisha-MN (coldguinea@netscape.net), February 14, 2002.

I raised Rotties for many years and will say that shock collars do work on them but they are smart enough to learn quite quickly when they have one on and when they don't. Others are simply very tough dogs and will do what they think necessary (and their idea of necessary is not always yours)whether they have a shock collar or not.

Also, some have very strong prey drives and it seems impossible to restrain them without long and consistent training ... plus periodic reinforcement training. In over 20 years of raising them, I found that most of the problems are with a lack of early, consistent training. Every time I sold a puppy I practically twisted arms trying to get people to understand that they needed to start serious obediance training with the puppy so that when they had a grown dog the idea of obediance was already so instilled that the dog would not even consider disobeying an order.

That said, I also had a very well trained, adult Rott come in with no experience with horses who was very protective of me and never believed I was not at risk when I was close to a horse. A shod horse actually kicked him in the face and splintered his front teeth and he was going back in to "protect" even then. He never got reliable around a horse because of the protectiveness ... which is characteristic of the breed ... they will protect "their person" and "their property" literally to the death ... it is what they were bred for ... and it is up to the owner to train them to be selective as well as obedient.

-- SFM (sportpony@yahoo.com), February 14, 2002.

I would get my shotgun and take care of that dog. The horse give you a lot of services, the dog is giving you problems a Rotweiler, is just a hole in your pocket, one time I calculate with my wife how much money will cost me to keep the dog like that per year, food, vet, etc. and forget to repair everything that a big dog like him destroys, well just to keep him alive. AROUND 1700 dlls a year. Get the SHOTGUN!!! Ralph.

-- Ralph Roces (rroces1@yahoo.com), February 14, 2002.

I would try to keep them seperate. If that's not possible perhaps either the dog or the horse needs a new home. Personally, my horses come first & I would not put up with any dog chasing them. A few years ago my neighbor had a purebred german shepherd pup that she bought to show. Every time that dog got out he would come chase my colt. We'd asked to stop this, but somehow the dog still got out a couple times a month. We'd decided the dog would be shot the next time it happened & told her. Well, one day that stud colt figured out that HE was BIGGER than the dog! He turned on it, stomped the h*ll out of it, and ran it all the way to the pasture fence before we could get out there with the gun. I thought that was great & the shep never came over again. However, my colt developed a deep hatred of dogs after that & would go after any dog, including my own who were totally horse safe. The colt had been perfectly friendly with our ancient springer until that point, after that I could not take the dogs anywhere near him.

-- ellie (elnorams@aol.com), February 14, 2002.

TIA, this is an obedience problem. As mentioned above, Rotts do have a strong protective drive and prey drive too. They are wonderful dogs, we had one for 11 years. Since the dogs and horses are new to one another you do need to keep that rott on a long line every time it is allowed anywhere near the horses and a strong correction given when any sign of hostility is shown by the dog. Rotts are determined critters but as you know are smart too. Do Not let this dog out unless you are right there and the dog is on the long line. I bet a few weeks of this and you will have the situation under control Now this is assuming that you have been to obedience training with your dogs. If you have not, then shame on you and you may never be able to let the dog out unless it is on a line. You might also contact the Parent Rottweiler Club of the USA, get your local chapters e mail or phone and get some advice from them. Good luck, LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), February 14, 2002.

Thank you all for your varied and interseting responses. My dogs are extremely WELL TRAINED & DISCIPLINED (except for horses and round objects). These are suburban dogs, and are now getting used to country life. Like I said in my previous post, the dog doesn't go after our other horse, just this one.

All that seperates the dogs (when loose) & horses is electric, and the dogs highly respect it (except for their pen which is fence & electric). The dogs are well tempered, and occasionally chase after our cats and min-pin when they are on the run, but they never try to hurt them (it is for this reason that I believe the male isn't trying to hurt the horse - just play with it).

We love all our animals dearly, and would compromise one for the sake of another. We are obligated to them to insure their well being.

At this stage I believe I cannot allow the male to ahave free-range of the property, so it looks as if we're going to have to fence off our yard an keep him there.

By the way - I learned about TIA from a Jeep forum (www.jeepsunlimited.com). It stands for "Thanks in advance", but it would be a nice name. Therefore, our next female critter will get this name. Thank you for it....

Best,

-- Rudy (rbakker@wcrtc.net), February 14, 2002.

I had a female Rottie, that was untrained until I had her, (at about 9 months) she also had the chase behavior you described, with constaint spanking with the hand and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH scolding with the voice, she learned the leave the ducks and the lawnmower alone, she did get more than just a hand spanking when she killed the chickens tho'. All together it took a couple of years, but but the time she left me seven years later, voice correction was all she needed, AND she had lived loose in the yard with a pet duck for over 6 years, so I would try some deliberate "horse is a NO-NO, horse is a BAD-DOG," training.

-- Thumper/inOKC (slrldr@yahoo.com), February 14, 2002.

I would keep the dog from the horse. Many horses become dog aggressive, due to being chased and harrassed by dogs. We have had several horses over the years, and had one mare who would put any dog on the run, if she caught up with it she would stomp on it! (She had been bothered when she had a foal) Even our old reliable dog was not allowed near her unless we were there as the mare would have injured or killed the dog. For both animals safety keep them away from each other. Denise

-- Denise K. (Rabbitmom2@webbworks.com), February 14, 2002.

Had his head run over! Maybe that's his problem!

Sorry to say, but you may not be able to break him from the chase. My dad shot more than one dog when I was little (not ours, but strays, and even a neighbor's once or twice!) because they were chasing cattle, and from all the understanding I have of it, once they get started you can't break them of it. I think your separation idea is the best one. Just don't give them the opportunity to harass each other. If they can't play together nicely...

-- Christine in OK (cljford@mmcable.com), February 14, 2002.

Have you considered introducing the dog to the horse while you have control of the dog and someone else has control or the horse? (Dog on a leash or choker) It's possible the dog is intimidated by the horse and just needs to see that the horse will not hurt him if he doesn't chase it. I've found that face to face meetings are a lot more productive than feet to face meetings.

-- linda dale (grannydale@hotmail.com.), February 14, 2002.

Try one of those big super-soaker squirt guns filled with 50/50 vinegar/water. When the dog goes after something, give him a good squirt in the snout and yell "OFF!" May take a few times, but dogs usually get the message. Worth a try.

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), February 14, 2002.

Our female rottie was older when we got her and had never been on a farm or let out of her kennel. She was virtually a puppy mill dog for a k-9 breeder. So - what did she do first? ran up behind one of my mares and grabbed her tail. The horse kicked her but good. She must be one of the smart rotties, (she's german bred) as she has never chased any animal on the farm since. Not goats, chickens and turkeys which roam in the yard, cats, or kittens, or the donkey. She is one of the best dogs we have. Don't know if she's grateful not to be having puppies twice a year every year or just glad to be out of that kennel, but our dog is a real smart girl. She now acts superior around the horses, like she doesn't notice them. If you can't break the dog chasing the horse, get rid of the dog no matter what kind it is. One or the other will end up hurt.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), February 14, 2002.

An animal chasing dog has no place on the homestead. You'll never have any peace. Well trained or not there is a hole in his training. Well trained dogs stop on command. I forsee a big vet bill in your future.

-- charlie (charliesap@pldi.net), February 14, 2002.

I agree with many of the warning posted above. One of the misconceptions that many people have when moving to the country is that it will be a good place for their dogs to have a little room to roam and enjoy life. If there is anything that I have learned since moving "out" ten years ago it is that keeping a dog confined and under control is MORE IMPORTANT in the country than it is even in the city. A dog with behavior like this dog is displaying is a livestock disaster waiting to happen - to you or to someone else! You sound like a very responsible owner but the learning curve can be pretty steep concerning this subject. Many people are very surprised at the viciousness of a family pet in a country setting surrounded by other critters. I keep chickens and sheep among other things, both of which are very attractive to neighborhood dogs and both of which have been injured and killed by "family pets". Always shocks the owners. There was even a holstein calf down the road that was taken down and killed last year by a pack of "family pets". You are wise to be concerned.

-Sara Perry in Vashon Island, WA

-- Sara Perry (JPerry1218@aol.com), February 15, 2002.