I just read John Fleetwood's "Very smooth M3" (almost sounds something like a Martini or Margarita, but it's http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0087GC)
and I have often been wondering which M you have found to be the smoothest and quietest. Which of SS and DS is smoother/quieter? That might lead me to getting that one next. (Wouldn't mind it also having the old self-timer.) Thanks for your feelings here. Mike

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), February 21, 2002

Answers

I can certainly back up the old comment that my M2 is much smoother than my M4-P or subsequent models - maybe slightly quieter too.

As I have said before though, the 'virtually silent' M shutter is a myth - simply not true, all this stuff about 'they didn't know I had taken their picture' or asked 'when are you going to start clicking' - maybe in a noisy enviroment but not in a quiet room!

I have a 1915 Kodak Vest Pocket - now that is quiet!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 21, 2002.

Maybe they all get smoother as the get older? Just a thought

B

http://www.briandavidstevens.com

-- briandavidstevens (briandavidstevens@talk21.com), February 21, 2002.

Well, Brian, I do!

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), February 21, 2002.

Since Leica now owns Minox, I guess I can add this one. When I shoot my Minox 35ML, sometimes I have to check the shutter indicator to know that it really fired.

-- Jeff Polaski (polaski@acm.org), February 21, 2002.

Relating to a couple of really smooth, quiet M-3's I had years ago, I have an obvious response and a theory. What's obvious to me is that brass gears, when they're done right, wear in and "smooth out" nicely, and brass itself is more vibration- dampening than other types of metal. My theory is that rubberized cloth shutter curtains lose a bit of weight as they age, and exhibit a lower "moment of inertia" than new shutters. An old M-camera with a good CLA takes good advantage of this. I've also owned M-2's a 4's that felt this way, but I think the M-3 wins as a result of its sheer mass. Having said all of this, my Black Paint M-6 feel very close to an old, well-adjusted M-3. My quietest camera ever? An old Rolleiflex 3.5 F TLR, whose Planar lens was the absolute cats pajamas, bar none!

-- John Layton (john.layton@valley.net), February 21, 2002.

The Hexar AF with Silent Mode -- it is the quietest rangefinder ever made.

-- g.g. allen (gregorygallen@hotmail.com), February 21, 2002.

In my limited experience, I have found the M3, 2, 4, and Balck-Paint M6's to be the quietest. I believe this is due to the brass bodies. IMO the smoothest M I've ever felt was a DS M3 -- but of course you have to crank it twice for every shot -- but the SS M3, M2 and M4 (non - 2 or P) to be pretty darn smooth too.

:-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 21, 2002.

The Hexar in Silent mode makes my M6 sound like a shotgun firing.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), February 21, 2002.

Jack, :) -for 'brass body' read brass top plate - ALL M's have the same die-cast body.

Seeing as the noise comes from the shutter mechanism I doubt the top plate material can affect noise transmission that much.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 21, 2002.

Yes Giles, I know it is only the top plate that is brass... But to my ear they seem a bit quieter. You and others may feel differently; so be it.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 21, 2002.

Actually - Giles and Jack: I recently bought and returned a zinc-top M6TTL - it had a very loud ratchety winding sound, esp. on the backstroke (at least by Leica standards). I am convinced that the zinc top, combined with that EXTRA 2mm of 'attic space' in the TTL body, creates a resonating chamber that amplifies the winding noise. I tried a 'classic' M6 today and it much closer to the M4-P is feel and sound.

It didn't affect the shutter sound, which was quieter than my 4-2/4-P.

Still, there IS nothing like a DS M3 for whisper-smoothness. AN unbiased opinion by a non-owner who's tried every body he ever gets a chance to sample. The SS 2/3/4 bodies are a close second.

P.S. On any body (except?? maybe the M7) the 1/50 sync speed is usually the quietest speed - higher speeds are sharper snaps, and slower speeds have more gear-train noise added.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 21, 2002.

Sorry, Jack I tried 'smiling' to show it was meant with no offence intended.

I agree that the older bodies are quieter (as mentioned due to brass drivetrain) but coming back to brass tops - the M4-P has the same set- up as your M6 BP ie steel gears/brass top so should sound the same?

:)

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 21, 2002.

Giles:

No offense was taken and none was intended -- I was only trying to clarify my post. And to add further clarification, I do not own a BP; I would certainly like to someday, but don't at this time. However, I have shooting buddies that do have them, M-2's and M3's so those are the ones I am able to compare noise and smoothness to. I have not personally shot with an M4-P, so I cannot comment its noise relative to an M6 BP.

Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 21, 2002.

My M3 DS, made in January 1955, is quieter than my M3 SS of 1961, which itself is quieter than my M6 TTL 0.72 of 2000. Maybe it is because of the brass, or maybe because more rolls of film have passed through the 47 year old M3 DS!...................................

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

Thanks for your answers, guys! Especially Muhammad, who mentioned his DS/SS news inclusive of issue years!! Now according to that migration (and everything already said regarding comparisons of M2/3/4s to M6s), the M7 should turn out to be the loudest of them all!!! ;)

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), February 22, 2002.

It all depends how clean and lubed they are. I had a M3 return from an old Leica guy in Germany, who had stripped it completely (he told me that nobody does that today, not even the "good guys" in the US) cleaned and lubed it. I have never heard a shutter that quiet!! It sounds approximately 3-4 times quiter then a brand new M6 (it's true), and a lot quiter then my other "mint from a shop" M3 DS (the shops fool the hell out of you with their mint examples with one year guarantee, get an old one and send it in for a CLA).

Thomas Krantz

-- Thomas Krantz (tkrantz@kpmg.com), February 22, 2002.

The quietest camera is Minox EC

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), February 24, 2002.