Are you an enthusiastic amateur or seasoned pro? Struggling artist eking out an existence on baked beans to pay for your Leica fetish? Or are you a well-heeled plutocrat to whom money is no object? I am happy to say I am an amateur, although I’m lucky to have had the odd picture published. I just wondered what the breakdown on this forum is, and how being amateur or pro affects people's attitudes to Leica? For example, Leica seems very expensive to amateurs, but given its longevity and reliability, appears a relative bargain for pros - a third the price of a top model digital (although there's the cost of film to be factored in). Also, amateurs find M cameras heavier than many AF SLRs, but they weigh a fraction of a pro SLR kit. Are amateurs fussier than pros? Just what are the differences?

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), February 22, 2002

Answers

Me, I'm just an amateur and I like it that way. I have a decent, and a real weakness for quality, both equipment-wise and image- wise. I really liked the simplicity and compactness of the Leica M system compared to my former camera, a Canon 1N with a 28-70L lens, now that's huge. I'm a gearhead as well, so the Leica hits a lot of fascinations for me. Aesthetically, it's pleasing to operate and look at as well. The most important gratification is the developed images though!

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

I meant to say I have a decent income, and place a high value on quality, and usually buy something with the intention of keeping it basically for life (if it lasts). I derive a lot of satisfaction with my purchases this way.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

I'm a seasoned amateur and enthusiastic pro. Since I'm primarily a people photographer, I try to go easy on the baked beans. I typically have more film than food in my fridge.

The Leica Ms are easily my favorite cameras to use, though I also use Pentax 645, old Canon SLR, or (very rarely) 4x5 monorail when those are the best tools for the job.

I think varying attitudes toward equipment are based as much on the photographers' personalities as on the amat/pro status. I used to assist a guy who treated his (well-worn) Hasselblads like they were made of crystal, and I have a friend who doesn't hesitate to wipe rain/crud off the front element of his months-old 80-200/2.8 Nikon zoom with his shirt sleeve.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotograpy.com), February 22, 2002.

Just an amateur. I'm doing an adult class with shows all aspects of photography by giving assignments. Nice to do and you really get the feeling of the different directions. The assignments varied from technical ones (bauhaus, DOF, still-life(?)) to more emotional ones from self-portrait to the current 'man and his environment' which more or less is street photography. I like this last one a lot.

-- ReinierV (rvlaam@xs4ll.nl), February 22, 2002.

I think that the reason most pros use Canon/Nikon has more to do with things like availability of rental gear, ease of repair and replacement, AF & 8fps is pretty much a "gotta-have" for sports photographers. Digital costs more, but what is the price of time for a daily newspaper or big news magazine? Getting film to the lab and the scanner and transmitted adds hours on something that is now being done in minutes. I would have to argue that a M kit is any cheaper than a pro kit. Since it's only fair to compare apples to apples, a Nikon F5 with 17-25 28-80 & 80-200 lenses is going to cost you close to the same as a Leica M6TTL with 24 50 90 lenses. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000, proobably a bit more.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), February 22, 2002.

Former pro who now enjoys his photography far more as an amateur again. One of the reasons I now use a Leica 99% of the time was the necessitity of AF/AE modern SLR's for my work (mainly sports) - it was such a pleasure to get back to an all-manual and mechanical, one- lens set up at the 'weekends'!

Regarding costs above, it is irrelevant if you are a pro, they are tools for a job and depending on the field you work in you must select the most suitable tool regardless of 'brand devotion'.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 22, 2002.

Amateur. I also do some painting, drawing, charcoal work, etc. and have for most of my life. Leica gives me the same hands-on feel - the satisfaction of creating something, of self-expression. I truly enjoy taking an idea from the stage of visualization to completion, and Lecia is the perfect system. One days I will create the perfect image, one day.

-- Anam Alpenia (aalpenia@dasar.com), February 22, 2002.

Echoing Mike Dixon, I'm "a seasoned amateur and enthusiastic pro." Only twist is that I rarely exhibit & shoot 35 & 6x6 in the so- called art category. I sell, but selectively.

Without analysis, I feel that my Leicas become magical tools when used for this purpose & all seem imparted w/ a resonance that I don't feel when handling SLRs. Go figure, but who wants to waste the time? Better to simply shoot for that magic image that comes along too infrequently!

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), February 22, 2002.

Was a pro. Started 20 years ago photographing fashion and commercial for The Bay (Canada's largest dept store). After 8 years of this did 5 shooting motorsports for (now defunct) Formula 2000 magazine. In 1990 I gave up pro shooting to concentrate on my fine art work, but after the baked beans route (for me it was Cup O Soup) for a couple of years I augmented my income with a 9-5 job - Industrial Sales at a large photo retailer. I get to sit in an office all day, people I know and like (mostly studio owners) come in and have coffee. Tough job - but somebody has to do it.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.

Advanced amateur (when I owned the Nikon F system) turned amateur again with the Leica M. Originally, my interest in photography started when I was 8 years old. I have an eccentric uncle (now a representative of Konica) who was a real gear-head. He collected cameras like no tomorrow but couldn't produce good images even if his life depended on it. From his cast-away collection I got a Rollei 35 LED. Cheap, camera, made in Singapore, no rangefinder... but it taught me the basics for 3 years. Afterwards, I mentored under a well re-nowned landscape photographer who ran a wedding photography business. He wasn't location so most of his people work was with a 4x5 in the studio. Then mostly through highschool I used my dad's F2 and dropped photography for 4 years to concentrate on my Baccalaureate. Now I find myself finishing up grad school and 2 years into the M system.

I still consider myself new to the rangefinder concept but I now devote every Saturday to exploring its potential so hopefully this will be a steep learning curve that I'm on.

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.

Advanced amateur. Photographed weddings as a "stringer" for about 10 years, had my own wedding business for about 5 years. Over the years I have used Pentax, Nikon, Rolleicord/Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, Contax and Leica.

Photography for me is now for fun. Love my M3 and scummy collapsible cron. Also like my G2 and 35 to 70mm zoom for travel.

Ditto's,

-- Alan Purves (lpurves@mnsi.net), February 22, 2002.

To reverse Mike's words, I'm an enthusiastic amateur and seasoned (30+ years) pro. I use Canon EOS, Pentax 6x7, and Fuji GX680 as situations require, but my Leica M3 is the camera which gives me joy. I shoot less with it and get more keepers. In fact, I think it makes me a better photographer.

As a result of my love for Leica-style photography (and a recent back injury), I am shifting my marketing away from the elaborately-lit, medium format work I've been doing for years and toward a more realistic and spontaneous style for my corporate and non-profit clients.

I haven't used medium format at a wedding in nearly two years.

Auto-everything cameras do not give me the satisfaction that originally drew me into photography. Call me a luddite if you like, but I find that the advance of digital imaging only makes the traditional tools and processes of photography more attractive.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), February 22, 2002.

I used to be an advanced amateur, employing motor armatures to focus my AF Nikkors. Now that I switched to Leica, I am a regular amateur because I use left handed arm-a-turns to focus my MF Summicrons. Not to mention shutters speed selection. Is that a step backwards or what? If I get an M7, I'm note sure what kind of amateur I'll be.

-- Dan Brown (brpatnet@swbell.net), February 22, 2002.

i'm a bum.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

I'm an enthusiastic amateur selling enough photography to buy more Leica stuff and film, while my 9-to-5 job keeps me from eating too many beans.

I like the no-nonsense simplicity, unbreakable construction and silky- smooth operation of the SL, and the lenses need no justification. I've been using the SL for over 20 years and expect to continue using it for many more, so the annualized cost of the hardware is very low.

-- Douglas Herr (telyt@earthlink.net), February 22, 2002.

Reckon that I "souped" close to a million rolls of B&W and Kodacolor film as a kid, along with being behind the counter in retail photographic sales in the family business in Central Illinois 40 years ago. Cashed my paychecks so met the base definition of "Pro".

Never in the last 40 years have I "sold" a single image of the more than 55,000 negs and chromes now in the spare closet. Guess that makes me an amateur now. Albeit happy with that title.

Jerry

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), February 22, 2002.

Dexter, are you an "enthusiastic" bum or a "seasoned" bum?

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), February 22, 2002.

I'm an "enthusiastic amateur" and a pro only when necessary -- meaning that I publish some of my work in one genre (music) in order to gain better access at venues such as large festivals. The mags don't pay enough $$ to make it worthwhile even sending the stuff to them, at least for me, but having those working relationships gets me right up front, and backstage, and onstage at times, which results in better shots. And I sell a few other things to friends/acquaintances.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), February 22, 2002.

What's the dif between the two really? A degree, a diploma, working every day, working once a month. I've done work before, but enjoy photography when it is personal. If I could get paid for doing personal photography I would be a "professional amatuer".....but that would be like dreaming for a Leica M7 with at least a higher shutter speed.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

I am an amateur. I do photography because I can't: play music, draw/paint, or dance. As an engineer I'm constantly using my left brain, and need to use the right side once-in-a-while.

As for mt attraction to Leica. My PhD uncle used Leicas and was a semi-pro; the occasional wedding, and photofinishing shop owner. Also, as an engineer, I'm a gearhead: I enjoy solid, classic, well designed and built, quality, keep it to a minimum simplicity opto- electrical-mechanical products; from Linn hi-fi, Rolex watch, Amp Research Bike, Trident cooking knives, etc. Quality is often cheaper than disposable products; and more of a pleasure to use. Like stocks: buy and hold.

And, because I travel 100% for my company (now in St. Louis), I need and appreciate compact, if not light weight equipment. I bought a second Hassy SWC because the "new" CT*, last one bought was more compact than the newer first CF one. Anyone interested?

I'm pretty fussy with my equipment: dirt is the worst enemy. Dirt makes my bike heavier, and it wears out the parts faster; dirt makes my LP's sound awfull; dirt scratches my lenses. I hate dirt! I don't pamper my all bought used stuff, but its all clean.

As for money: I think Luther Barry (?) wrote it best, paraphrasing: "I don't have a problem with will power, its won't power that I need". If it's a perceived need, it gets bought. That's probably why I have more than 10 cameras (see above). Also, I can't pass up a good deal; it makes me feel "smart".

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), February 22, 2002.

Amateur. Have only owned one other camera before the M6, a Minolta Himatic rangefinder, so the switch was relatively smooth. I do a lot of charcoal and brush and ink drawing, too, sometimes working from my photos. Hi Anam! I never knew that an object could be the source of so much pleasure, before using the Leica. Having purchased the 28 Elmarit before Christmas, have been eating a lot of lentils; better than beans.

-- Margaret (fitz@neptune.fr), February 22, 2002.

I'm a pro. I work 3 days a week for Switzerland's biggest Sunday paper. The rest is personel work. Personel work is all with Leica M6. Newspaper work is about one third M6 and 2 thirds Nikon F100. With the Newspaper work I earn just enough to live. With the personel work I spend what I do not need to live. Michael

-- michaelwildi (michaelwildi@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.

Definitely an amateur. I only own one M body with a 50mm Summicron. I used to be a professional medical photographer where I used Nikon and Hasselblad (loved that camera). Since most of my stuff now is of a serendipitous nature, the Leica is the right camera for me. I don't have any real experience with auto cameras. Everything I've ever used has been manual. I understand the needs of professional shooters, but when I look at the size of a 35mm cassette and then look at the size of any modern slr I am happy I don't need to use one everyday.

I suppose I'm somewhat of a Luddite as well, sometimes I think technology is more complicating than liberating.

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.

What an interesting and diverse bunch of people on this forum! Thank you to everybody for sharing something about themselves. It's gratifying to see so many of you think you gotta do it for love, not just the money. Well, I'm off for the weekend taking pictures of something called a Stargazer - a kind of wooden tent with a glass roof to look at the stars, and maybe mountain bikes. Some might end up being published, but it should be a good trip.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), February 22, 2002.

Amateur photojournalist in quotes... I haven't earned a cent from my shooting yet but it's been a fun ride like the way Masta Ace said.

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

An advanced amateur. I began at age eight when my Dad gave me a Bolex 8mm camera with an Angenieux zoom lens. I eventually switched to a Nikon F photomic five years later and remained a Nikon system gearhead for the next 25 years. About four years ago, I became interested in maximizing the quality of my photgraphs and I was introduced to the R8. I still remember the first time I peered through the viewfinder. It was love at first sight!! The large Nikon system was traded in for two R8s, a 19mm, 28mmPC, a 50mmF1.4, a 100mmMacro F2.8, a 35-70mm F4 and a 80-200mm F4. The latter will soon be sold for a 70-180mm F2.8 on the next Leica day. The quality of my photographs has increased noticeably according to my severest critic, my wife...

-- Albert Knapp MD (albertknappmd@mac.com), February 22, 2002.

Amatuer. Bought my first Leicaflex in 1997. Carried it throught Vietnam, countless vacations, and into places I never dreamed of going. The damn thing is still going strong. Also picked up an old M3, Leicaflex SL and an assortment of 3C's and F's while working in a camera shop. Strange but for as old as these things are they still work well. I don't need or really want all the buttons and bells that today's cameras have. I want something that will last and Leica does. The initial outlay for Leica is steep but very very cheap in the long run. That and I'm comfortable with it.

-- Andy Wagner (awagner@midwest-express.com), February 22, 2002.

Professional newspaper photographer (photojournalist -- I use photos to tell stories rather than make pretty pictures, although I sometimes wish I could spend more time doing that). I use Canon EOS on the job and look for ways to use the Leica M-6 when I can. It's ironic that the great photojournalists of their day used Leica rangefinders almost exclusively, but when I review my week's work to see if I could have done something different or to see if maybe I should have used a different lens or the Leica I find my work doesn't allow me to work as close or as slowly as I often would like. It's hard to take pictures in the courtroom when you shoved in the back of the room and a 300mm lens still isn't long enough, or take pictures of the visiting President and you are stuck on a platform several yards away, but heh, that's the business. I am determined to get back to the basics and use that Leica more and more, as I really see a difference in the quality of the images. I really appreciate the fact that the Leica doesn't weigh you down and draw as much attention to yourself. There's nothing like a couple of putty-white zooms lens hanging around your neck to draw attention to yourself. As for the differences between pros and amateurs ... I see a lot of great work done by amateurs and a lot of crappy work done by professionals ... and quite frankly I don't think the equipment has a thing to do with it.

-- Dayton P. Strickland (daytonst@bellsouth.net), February 22, 2002.

Hello David,

I´am a serious amateur for 25+ yrs. Have sold a few photos and use my photography for documentation purposes as an engineer. Some years ago I could gain enough to pay for a part of my LEICA gear.

Quite glad I do not have to earn my living with photography, seems to be pretty hard these days. Too many good people around.

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), February 23, 2002.

Definitely amateur: I make not a cent out of my photography though I expend more than a few dollars in it, possibly the same than everybody else in this forum.

Differences: aside from the obvious I think that the big advantage in being an amateur photographer is that you photograph what you want and only what you want. The greatest disadvantage: you have to use most of your time in making money instead of shooting your camera(s).

Regards, David

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), February 25, 2002.