I am feeling very blue. Five of the 17 new baby goats were killed night before last. Coyotes were the first suspect, but now the rumor in the area is there is possibly a Mtn. Lion in the area. We are pondering what the options are for protection and eradicating the problem. If anyone has any ideas, they will sure be welcomed.

C

-- Carole (carle@earthlink.net), February 22, 2002

Answers

If it was a lion , they kill for the fun of it, at times. If there is a person known to hunt/trap lions in your area, then contact them as they will most likely do it for nothing (no cost to you), since lions are scarce in many areas and it is good PR for the hunter/trapper.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.

A couple of good LGD will help. I am so impressed with ours as they will be out carrying on before we can even hear coyotes, etc. So, sorry for your loss that must be devasting.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), February 22, 2002.

That is sooo sad! Sorry to hear of your loss. You didn't say if the goats were eaten or just killed. Coyotes usually don't kill for fun, they will eat their kill or carry it off to a safer place to eat. BC is right lions will sometimes kill for fun. If it is a cat, your county game ranger should have a live trap he can use. My guess would be dogs, they are more apt to kill for fun. You might check with neighbors, have them keep a look out for dog packs. Sometimes good family pets can do a lot of damage when grouped together. Best wishes!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

I would look for dogs first. Whatever it was, I keep watch. They may be back.

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), February 22, 2002.

The man from the ranch down the road called. Seems a horse was attacked yesterday and the vet pretty much confirmed it was a Mtn. Lion. We got the number of a hunter/trapper nearby but he works for a private club and has to have their permission to do private work. We have to wait for the answer to that. All the neighbors have been alerted and all interested authorities called. Nights are the worst,not knowing what the head count will be the next morning. It is killing me to hear the mamas crying for their babies. All the fence lines have been checked and we did not find any areas that coyotes or dogs could have gotten in. One new baby this morning, a single that loves to be held..( had to hold her to get mama to follow me into another pasture area). She was the smallest of the does so I'm glad she didn't have triplets like so many of the others are having. Thank you for your support. C

-- Carole (carle@earthlink.net), February 22, 2002.

Call your local Game & Fish officer. Tell them the problem. Chances are they will trap the lion for free. Hiring a private trapper usually involves payment of some sort, which is not necessary for G&F, b/c you pay taxes.

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

Maybe lock the babys up at night?

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), February 22, 2002.

I think I would be locking those goats up at night in a garage if nothing else is available, and put out an All Points Bulletin for a couple of Livestock Guard Dogs, they are terrific. We have a Great Pyrennees. Julie in OK

-- Julie (okwilk213@juno.com), February 22, 2002.

Where are you located?

Great Pyrenees are essential. I swear the coyotes are worse this year. I see one or 2 coyotes crossing our place everyday but our Pyr goes after them. You're right the night is the worst. We shine flashlights at them and see their eyes. We have mares about to foal and we're going to be moving them closer to the front pasture soon. Donkeys are good too - they hate canines.

So sorry about your loss.

-- zeb (wrangler@jridgeranch.com), February 22, 2002.

Can you barn them at night? If not barning them in how about moving them for the night to an area with the 16 foot cattle panels around. What kind of fence do you have? Is it electified? We have high tensile, 7 strands, 60 " high. If something is digging under, you might find tracks there. Brushy Mt. Bee Supplies has a gizmo called the critter gitter. It is a battery operated motion detector light and shrill alarm that resets different pattern each time that is supposed to work for bears, human intruders, and might scare a mountain lion away.How about leaving a radio on out there tuned into a talk radio station. The sound of voices might be intimidating.

-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), February 23, 2002.

Carol, still need to know where you are located. ME, PA, MO, KS, AZ, WA, wherever. Can't get a handle on blaming any critter if we don't know where you are coming from. We can sit here and say that it's a mountain lion when you may be a thousand miles from nearest confirmed sighting of such an animal. And may be miles from nearest coyote concentration. Don't need your city and ZIP Code, just general area. You've also failed to mention wounds on the victims. Sharp claw marks to the back, shoulders, and neck would indicate lion. Ripped hamstring damage would mean canine; wolves, coyotes, and dogs. Any local "expert" who can't tell the difference between a feline and canine attack is just taking a stab in the dark and saying that he doesn't have a clue. So, Carol, please give us more specifics. We're not all Sherlock Holmes but we can do wonders when presented with all of the clues.

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), February 23, 2002.

For us in NC it is usually dogs that attack goats. Can anyone talk about donkeys as guard animals? What about minature donkeys?

-- T.D. Matheny (theny@intrex.net), February 23, 2002.

We are located in the Hill Country of Texas. Bandera County to be specific. Of the five we lost, no hide was left, only the jawbones of what looks to be two babies. Gathering them up at night is tough to do every night. They are still too small to follow their mommas in, since she tucks them in the wooded area scattered over 51 acres and as hard as we look, you just can't find them all. Last evening we put out a couple of bright spots and had a radio going all night. All was well this morning, thank goodness. C

-- Carole (carle@earthlink.net), February 23, 2002.

Have to look for the tracks. Could be a mtn lion or it could be a jaguar, or it could be a coyote or something else. And before someone says something--Yes there are jaguars in Texas. I've seen them along the border on numerous occasions and they do get up into the Hill Country. G&F, as I said before will come out, look at the paw prints, determine what you have as a predator and set the traps. That why you pay taxes.

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), February 23, 2002.

TD - miniature donkeys are good guard animals because they hate canines and will chase one and kick it if it comes in their pasture. IMHO donkeys are cuter and more affectionate than some other guard animals. Pyrenees are good too and I've heard of them killing even bobcats.

I've haven't seen but have heard of jaguars up here in N. TX. Bobcats & coyotes are most plentiful though.

-- zeb (wrangler@jridgeranch.com), February 23, 2002.

Carol, my vote is for coyotes. There may be mountain lions in the Hill Country State Natural Area that would be close to you. However, I understand that there are ample deer populations to keep the cats happy. Besides, a kid goat would just be a snack for a lion and they prefer not to work any harder than they have to in order to find a meal. They prefer stalking or letting the meal come to them. Then eat a big meal and curl up to sleep just like a housecat. Coyotes, on the other hand, will trot day and night and hunt as opportunists catching anything from mice to rabbits to baby deer and anything in between, furred or feathered. 3 or 4 coyotes would make quick work of a kid and then quickly move on to whatever else they can find which, in your case, was the next kid. I don't know what department that you could complain to in Texas but when you found them, they'd be able to point you to someone who would trap or hunt them. Just a few nights of "calling" by a good hunter would eliminate most of the problems. If it were fall, there'd be willing trappers for the fur. Furs are getting "springy" now so it would be someone just out to eliminate the nuisance pack.

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), February 23, 2002.

I have mine locked up with electric going up 6 feet. Debbie in OK.

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), February 23, 2002.