Dear everyone, I am happy to say that the answers that were sent to me are about what I expected. Those of you who sent in loving and plesent letters I want to thank you. Proverbs 16:24 Pleasent words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. For those of you who were hateful with narrowminded views and used words such as stupidity and rebel and some more. Matthew 7:3 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own. I do not want to get into a heated arguement here about this but I do have to say that for someone to say that a person with a piercing is stupid should probly spend some time in prayer about that and then go have a conversation with a few of them. I will say that I do know a lot of people with piercings and tatoos whose faith is stronger than their paster but there are just as many who have no faith and if that scares you because people like that are the common now than you should read 1 Corinthians 9:22I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. There is more but it is a very long verse. I would suggest more compassion to those who are different. Matthew 25:45 I tell you the truth whatever you did not do for the least of these you did not do for me. In reguards to the commit on spanking read Proverbs. Just because I look different from some of you and you may not understand that dose not mean that I am rebeling, I would hardly consider myself rebeling as I stand in my kitchen cooking dinner and baking bread, while I homeschool one child and another plays at my feet. If you need a word for me. I am a daughter, a sister, a wife, a mother, and a friend to those who need one. To all who read this Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another. My prayers and best wishes to all Jennifer

-- Jennifer (jenniferthf@aol.com), February 25, 2002

Answers

Jennifer, I really hope that you visit us often and allow us to get to know you. I think that you might just be a breath of fresh air in here!

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

Ya, what Ardie said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Bonnie Norris (queqid@att.net), February 25, 2002.

Yeah, baby! Very nicely stated! Big virtual high five!

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), February 25, 2002.

Thank you guys so much for your support!!!! Love to all

-- Jennifer (jenniferthf@aol.com), February 25, 2002.

Once again, Mom (Ardie), you took the words out of my mouth! Welcome Jennifer!

-- Lisa in WI (llehman16nospam@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

Hey Jennifer - I read most of the previous post and got some real insight into some of the people posting on the forums. Isn't it strange how we all have our belief systems and they are ALL right, and yet we still manage to get along somehow??? That's country folks for ya!

Well, I've got a couple things to say to you - you ever get into the Kansas City area and need a place to hang out, let us know you're coming - you're welcome anytime and we feed real good :8)!

Secondly, what is "success?" A bunch of the previous posts talked about being underpriveledged and underpaid and underworked and overlooked and yadda .. yadda ... yadda! My wife and I don't have many of what people would call friends, yet we never want for company. We don't have much money, but our needs always get met - many times by ways we would have NEVER expected. I used to drive a truck and make good money, but was away from home WAY too much! Now I work here on the homestead and do temp labor if we get really short on funds, and I'm successful (FINALLY!!!) We homeschool our children, raise a good protion of our food, live on a 40-acre piece of heaven, and accept people for what and who they are. And I'm real comfortable talking to you about your tattoos and piercings - asking questions and looking em' over and even comenting on em'. "Different" doesn't bug me in the least! So what I'm saying to you is you be who you are and keep your peace with your Maker and you're successful! All the restraints that society places on people is EXACTLY why I'm in the country on my homestead anyway.

One story on this subject and I'll submit this rather long post:

We sell eggs to a couple that live about a mile from us. The guy works construction and is a big, burley country fellow in every way possible. In the previous post my DW let it be known that I have tattoos and my left ear pierced. I don't flaunt the fact and I don't hide it, either. I don't wear the earrings often, but sometimes I do still. Yesterday I planned to stay home and work in the basement on the website I'm putting together, list some things on eBay, catch up on some letterwriting and just generally lounge around. So when I got up I stuck a couple earrings in to see if the holes were still open and left them in.

Around noon the couple we sell eggs to pulled into the drive. I went out to meet them and we visited for a while. I noticed Ray giving me a funny look from time to time, but didn't think much of it (didn't have my cap on, either, so figured my hair must be funny looking) until after they left. I walked back into the kitchen and realized I still had the earrings in and knew what the funny looks were about. In sharing this with my mom and wife, we all had a good laugh about it and went on about our business.

The world didn't stop turning, the neighbor still buys eggs from us and will be helping me put up a corrall when the weather gets warm enough and other than the funny looks hasn't treated me any different than any other time. Sure glad we got good neighbors! :-)!

Sorry about the long-winded post! Look forward to hearing more from you and your family, Jennifer!

-- Phil in KS (pemccoy@yahoo.com), February 25, 2002.

I didn't get a chance to respond to your first message, may I chime in now?

I live in 'farm' country. There seem to be more folks moving out onto 5 acre plots (even tho it's zoned so each house needs 40 acres, somehow these 5 acre plots keep showing up...) and putting up a real fancy house. Then the tax rates go up. Doesn't hurt the guy with 5 acres much, but the farmer with 500 acres sure notices...

Then the kids that got moved along out to the country get bored, and find things to do. They drive through alfalfa fields, and are angry anyone stops them because, "Nothing is growing there anyhow!" Them mailboxes start getting vandalized...

Then the guy with the fancy house doesn't like the dust, so he gets the gravel road paved - doesn't raise his 5 acres of taxes much. But it sure does for the farmer with 500 acres!

Then the guy with 5 acres gets some blight on his garden, and blames the farmer for spraying. Rightly or wrongly.

Then the guy with 5 acres complains about all the manure smells out in the country, and preposes all sorts of limits & conditions & moritoriums on livestock. Meanwhile he has 6 horses on his 5 acres (which is more livestock than current laws allow farmers to have per acre)...

Meanwhile, his bored kid is racing up & down the now-tarred road, swerving around farm equipment & giving everyone the finger for getting in 'his' way, while nearly killing everybody.

And did I mention the kid's partys??? Must dim the lights to run that much power through the stereo... He says it shouldn't bother anyone since we live so far apart not like in town, and the sheriff is 20 miles away & has a lot of ground to cover to be bothered with such complaints...

Then there are the young crowd that rent a house, & you find some odd chemicals & containers laying around. Anhydrous tanks start getting vandalized... (Meth labs, for those not familiar.) This requires more sheriff's employees, and more safegards, insurance, & repairs on coop equipment - all costing the farmer more taxes & more farm costs.

And so on. Before anyone gets too angry at me, this is a compilation of _real_ events that happened within 10 miles of my farm over the past 10 years.

Now, there are also at least as many folks who moved out onto 5 acres around here who are _wonderful_ neighbors, and a joy to have out in the country.

But, every time another person comes out of town & moves into the country, they are judged against the snobs & lemons. It seems you town folks have to prove yourselves to be good neighbors before you are 'trusted' or accepted.

I'm not saying that is _right_. But here in farm country, that is how town people are judged. That is how it is.

So, the tattoos & etc. is small potatoes to the fact that you come from town. Show that you are willing to be a good neighbor, and give it time for people to accept you, and all will be fine. But with or without the extra trimmings, you will be 'watched' for a while as a stranger.

Just the way it is, not the way I _want_ it to be. Ok? :) Sounds like you will do fine, once people get to know you. Have a thick skin & good attitude for a few months & all should go well. For what little my opinion is worth.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

I must admit that peircings do not do much for me, but I must say this...... When Jesus was on earth, what upset him most? Not the prostitutes and the tax collectors - but the Pharisees. Not the humble and repentant hearts - but the proud. God is most concerned that we are humble and Christlike and that we take his every command seriously. The humble tax collector pleased God more than the Pharisee who thanked God that he was not like other men.

Personally, I am opposed to peircings- truth be known - I am opposed to all jewelry. But Jesus said in Matthew chapter 5 that we must not call others "fools" or any other name. If we believe we have light on an issue that others cannot see we will never convince them by haughty words but loving Christlike words. In other words.....We cannot judge the hearts of others as to whether they are in rebellion or not. Only God knows what is in another's heart. We are all responsible to obey the light we have on God's word and pray for those who disagree on nonessential issues of personal preference. God bless you Jennifer.

-- The Lighter side of things (cappello@alltel.net), February 25, 2002.

You know really the only jewlery that really bothers me is folks wearing crosses. If you think about it, that is a little akin to wearing the bullet that killed your son around your neck. It has just always given me pause.

Jennifer, if you read the old posts, before Christ or all religion was taken out of them, my every post to the holy er than thows :) was always my compassion speech! Glad to see you are not only a tattoo lover like me, I got my first one at 40!, but that you also believe in Christ and compassion like me! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

God judges what's in the heart, not what's on the outside.

-- ruby (rubyfmc@cs.com), February 25, 2002.

I have been getting this a lot since my first post. I have 5 tatoos. Each and every one of them has special meaning, such as the fish on my ankle is for my oldest daughter it is her sign. My sholder is the sun/moon I am 1/2 Native American. My lower back is a tribal butterfly given to me by my husband so I will always have "butterflys" from him and my on my wrist is purple thorns. I'm sure they speak for themselves. My leg is a fairy My daughter chose it for me. My husband's tatoo on his neck is a LARGE chord of three strands with a wooden cross in front. He also has a matching fish on his ankle and a tribal wrist piece it has personal meaning for him. I welcome any questions or arguments.

Jennifer

-- Jennifer (Jenniferthf@aol.com), February 25, 2002.

Didn't get to see the orginial post, you guys got me all curious now. I have a Haida-style raven with the sun in his mouth tattooed on my back as a souvenier of a trip to alaska (althoug, I know, Haida were more in the seattle, british columbia area). I don't see it much because it's on my back, but whenever I do, I just start smiling, never had a moments regret about it. I have some acne scars, so I figure I'm entitled to some scars I like!

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), February 25, 2002.

I'm trying to figure out what the biblical verses have to do with anything?

I say pierce what you want.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), February 25, 2002.

Anne, if you read the original post on this you would see that some of the comments were the typical that she couldn't possibly be as Christian or as holy as "they" were. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

I see that Vicki. My knee-jerk reaction got in the way. I came back here to say that I don't want to offend anyone, but as a non-believer I feel that quoting a novel doesn't make it true. I'd feel that way about any 'religious' writings.

And Jennifer, Peace to you.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), February 25, 2002.

Hi Jennifer, I haven't read the original post, but you might want to scroll down to the "original messages" at the bottom of the forum and click womens issues. There is a post called "For fun, what do you do to adorn yourself", posted by Sheepish a couple of years ago. It's so funny and you'll be surprised how many homesteading gals have tatoos, among other things! There's a whole bunch of us folks around here that can be alot of fun, just ignore the party poopers. :)

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), February 25, 2002.

Not to make light of a serious subject--but was just wondering if the deep round scar on the inside of my arm from where the milk cow gauged the heck out of me a couple years ago could count as a " homesteaders piercing " ?? :) I don't have anything else pierced on purpose, but certainly feel like it is up to oneself to decide what is or is not appropriate for them. Iam always taken aback when I am judged for any reason, and try really hard to not ever do that to anyone else!

-- Lynn in Wa. (crabbyfiddler@earthlink.net), February 25, 2002.

I'm constantly amazed that people put stuff like this out asking for opinions, then get offended when they get some. Just because someone has a differing opinion does not make them narrowminded or hateful. It's your right to do whatever you'd like with your body but at the same time you do not have a right to be accepted. It's true that you can make life harder in many ways by piercing and tattooing yourself. Jennifer asked about acceptance in rural areas. I know firsthand that if your appearance is outside of societys standards, you're going to have a harder time in most rural settings than a 'clean-cut' person would. You'll have a harder time finding good employment or advancing in most careers. You'll get passed over for many things and won't be admitted in many circles. You won't get the same service and attention and won't be taken as seriously. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but it is and it won't change anytime soon.

Someone said they didn't understand how the piercing fad of the past decade couldn't be looked at as self-multilation. You obviously haven't seen some of the piercings or other body modifications people in that crowd are doing now. If you can stomach it, go look at bmezine.com or some of the other popular sites for piercing. Then see if you think it's not connected to self-multilation.

A few piercings can be adornment but just like make-up, people can go too far. I offered the opinion that tongue piercings are among the idiotic things people do to their bodies(and it's mild compared to some of the other piercings). I'm listening if you'd like to tell me how it isn't idiotic. I've known several people with them and none of them were getting along well in life. Well-adusted people just don't do those things. I ask them all why they have it and they really can't say why. What would possibly be worth having that on your tongue? Hard to say it's an adornment when nobody can see it unless you're talking. And most people with them have affected speech because of it. They seem like a hassle when you're eating. You only get one tongue and it would seem to be putting the health of it at risk. What's the purpose of it other than to multilate yourself or issues with getting peoples attention? Don't tell me it improves certain imtimate acts, it doesn't.

The last concert I saw was Marilyn Manson. He's a pretty shocking person to the status-quo. But he can get away with it because he's a aritst/performer and multimillionaire. If he was just some guy in a small town looking like that, he wouldn't get very far and probably couldn't even get a job at 7-11. He'd be made fun of and treated with suspect. My opinion comes from my experiences, not being narrowminded or hateful. Quite a few of my friends and acquaintances have piercings and tats. Most of them regret those things a few years later. The few that are really into it constantly pay the price in one way or another for their "adornments". A few of them are women, one with at least a dozen tattoos and now they have a hard time finding a decent man because most men don't want a woman like that. Not my rules but it is that way. If people are making you feel 'less than', look at yourself before you jump on them for being narrowminded. I've encountered that treatment before and it was usually justified and told me I needed to change if I wanted to be accepted in this society. If you don't care about being accepted then go for it but the price is yours to pay. Don't condemn people because they don't accept you, it's a privilege not a right.

You can find a bible verse to support just about any opinion. You asked for opinions, nobody tried to change your mind. Now it appears you want people to change their minds based on some bible verses and the threat of being tagged as narrowminded and hateful. People oughta be realistic and deal with differing opinions when they ask for them in a public forum. I think this routine is amusing but they usually have very little to do with homesteading and these kinds of topics probably shouldn't be initiated here in the first place.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), February 25, 2002.

jennifer. you seem like a nice girl, but i have to agree with dave here.you asked what people thought then when you got an answer you didnt agree with you started quoting scripture.there probably is scripture in the bible for just about everything. we can easily identify with scripture when we want to justify out beliefs,but it is difficult to identify with scripture when we want to do what our will is. i am a christian, and i know how hard it can be. keep this in mind also,Leviticus 19:28 Do not print or tattoo any marks upon you.I am the LORD. GOD bless you and yours.

-- cody (urbusted@alltel.net), February 25, 2002.

PLEASE allow me to withdraw my unseemly posts on this subject and please forgive my unwitting intrusion. I acted in good faith, meant well and promise never knowingly to trespass in this area again.

I love (not fear) my creator. It's his/her/its fan clubs that suck.

Be well, go forth and multiply.

-- Griff (griff@hangnail.com), February 26, 2002.

Seems to me what Jennifer asked was this:

I just have a quick statment. My husband and I have been looking into homesteading for a while and want that life really bad. What my question is. Will be be accepted in a small rual community. I have 5 tatoos and 8 body piercings. But I also stay at home and homeschool my oldest daughter. She is in kindergarden and doing second grade work. I love her and my 15 month old daughter as well. I teach her good christian values and try to teach her lost handiarts. She is 5 years old and embrodiering patches for her first quilt. I bake,I sew,I do sampliers, I make butter and those are just a few. My husband has a large tatoo if the cord of three strands on his neck and a few others. He looks a lot like grizzly Adams. We don't look like you but are in a sense the same. Our children mind us quite well and when they don't they get spankings. I have met very few people who have children as well behaved as mine. But in the city we are sometimes treated as "less then" because of the way we look. Is it going to be impossible for us to live in a small community and have real friends.

Some of y'all read a lot more into what she actually asked than was there. She didn't ask to be lectured on tatooing or piercing or anything else. She simply asked would she and her husband be accepted in a small town because they look different? I'd say she's got her answer.

Jennifer, you and your husband come on down here to the Gainesville area of Florida, we could use some genuine homesteaders rather than the usual lot that we seem to get.

.......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), February 26, 2002.

Well, now that I have a clue as to what this is about (thanks to Alan, since I missed something....)

Jennifer:

You can do whatever you want, and some areas are more accepting than others. Where I live, you would be accepted....IF you always wanted to only be a part of the "alternative" community, which does contain some homesteaders but not Christian ones.

I got tatooed at 26 and have been pierced up one side and down the other. My nose got its first hole at 24, and its second at 32. Now, at almost 40 I have taken them all out....just rings in my ears. Why?

Well, I decided since I really wanted to broaden my community horizons, I would do so much more quickly without the piercings. Since my kids were coming back to homeschooling and we were quitting the trendy Steiner school after two years, I didn't want to just be associated with THAT crowd. I wanted to be accepted for me without this big facial statement.

Plus, I must admit I realized something: my EGO was very attached to those nose rings. It had somehow become something bigger in its meaning, to prove a point. I wished I didn't have the tatoo now because...well, its big, and after this many years the lines are much less sharp, and anyway, I don't have a point to prove, and really don't want folks staring at my body anymore (I mean, come on, I look good but not like I did all those years ago!).

Since you brought up religion, let me say this: you can be a christian and be pierced and tattooed. However, to try and become humble and try and become Christ-like, all the tattoos and piercings are very "worldly" and ego filled, and grounds you in the material world of possessions and appearances. And what is the point anyway?

So, you can be accepted in the country, but it depends upon which country you pick and how you want to be accepted. I get along better in every day life now with folks, crack up over the pierced kids who make comments to me with REVERSE prejudice now, and find I really enjoy my "privacy" of not being looked at all the time (which, frankly, I hated before though i liked my piercings).

I must admit, though, that I really find it much less maintenance! Before I had to check for buggers on the rings all the time. I never realized how much time went into making sure they were in order, straight, etc. And since I am into low maintenance, I am glad to not be dealing with them anymore!

But no one should be judging people by things like that, and yet we all do. And in a certain way our appearance DOES reflect who we are and what is going on inside of us. Is it then really judging a book by its cover, or not?

Those are just things to think on. I have always had friends in all different walks in life, with all different lifestyles, and all different religions and sexual orientations. I always keep in mind that we all have our pasts to work on, our souls to work on, and we are each going about it in a different way. Some of my friends now are WILD in appearance, and some are so conservative that they look like they are from the fifties (well, you get my point). I enjoy them all in their unique ways. You just need to go visit areas and be yourself and see what kind of reception you get. That is how I picked where we moved!

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), February 27, 2002.

My two sons both wanted their ear(s) pierced around the age of 16. I told both of them that I would only agree to this if they got their you-know-whats pierced FIRST. So it put the ball in their court so to speak. They both CHOSE to wait until they left home. The oldest is now a tattooist and really good at it. He took home two trophies at his very first competition and his goal is WORLD top ten! Much as I do not want to do such things to my own body, I am regardless, quite proud of him. I DID encourage his Art work when he was a child but I never DREAMED it would lead to this. He LOVES to tattoo elderly women. Recently he did a 76 year old and a 68 year old and got such a kick out of it. He has designed several for his mother to choose from...chuckle chuckle ha ha! Oh, did I mention?, he makes a LOT of money...10 or 11 times the amount I made per hour at least! Last month I got him to "donate" one to a fundraiser for a small town skating club. It got the top bids. It's pretty popular.

-- me at (thehomestead@canada.com), February 27, 2002.