Of course, the whole idea of AE is to speed up the sequence of shooting, right? So now I'm in AE because I want to be new M7 quick as a bunny. So now, if your meter off of something that isn't centered, and use the AE lock to hold the exposure, and re-frame and shoot, and then find you want another quick sequence, then how does AE speed things up? So now you re-meter, re-AE lock, re-frame, and shoot, right? Now can someone explain how this speeds things up again? I don't get this whole AE thing!?!?!?!? Couldn't Leica have done something useful by giving us selectable partial(13%) and spot metering(1%)? Then when light is above EV7, I could use the partial metering, and when light is below EV7, then I could use the spot metering.

-- Glenn Travis (leicaddict@hotmail.com), February 26, 2002

Answers

I agree that having to use AE lock to hold exposure off center seems to take away much of the advantage of AE in the first place except for those who like hitting bulls eyes.

-- David Enzel (dhenzel@vei.net), February 26, 2002.

i want to apologize in advance for this relevant question...wouldn't it be cool if the M7 incorporated an INCIDENT meter in addition to a REFLECTIVE meter instead of that stupid AE? maybe not...or would it???

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), February 26, 2002.

built-in incident metering? never heard of that in any camera, what a great idea! even with an M6TTL I still use a Luna Pro or Sekonic L398 for incident readings. but those meters are nearly as big as an M body. (L 398 has no battery problems, though!) Carey

-- Carey Russ (careyruss@earthlink.net), February 26, 2002.

Well Glenn, you inquiry is fair and points to a disadvantage ot AE in the Leica M7. Of course, the answer is to switch the shutter speed dial to the desired shutter speed and shoot away.

-- Dan Brown (brpatnet@swbell.net), February 26, 2002.

Glen: I don't think you need a thing explained to you; I think you have summed the M7 AE up superbly! Meter once and shoot your series of shots, or meter for each shot... Take your pick!

What it might do though, is allow more non-thinking (make that partial-thinking) photographers the opportunity to get reasonable exposures with print film from their M just by pressing the shutter... And if they get reasonable exposures more regularly, then perhaps they won't be in such a hurry to off-load their mint bodies that they cannot operate well on the used market. This in turn, would allow Leica to sell more new cameras to the waiting block of prospective M shooters. Of course it might then severely limit the supply of good, cheap (relatively speaking) M's for the rest of us!

;-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 26, 2002.

A good aperture priority camera does speed things up and allows for more concentration on the subject and focusing. Of course, it can also lead to less concentration on the whole picture taking process, as the camera is starting to do some of the "thinking" for you and sometimes this can make you stop "seeing the light".

After using an AE camera for a while, I find it refreshing to have full controll in a manual set camera when I go back to one. After shooting a lot of pictures in changing light with a manual camera, I am happy to set my CLE or Nikon N90s on auto and shoot away. Its like an automatic transmission in a car--you don't need it, but sometimes it makes for a more relaxing ride.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), February 26, 2002.

This question actually mirrors the one when AF first came out. What is the point of a single central AF patch when everytime you shoot you have to re-AF, re-compose, re-AE lock? So now we have 45 (?) AF points coupled with X number of AE points in some high end wonderflex:) You think Leica will go this direction with the M39 say in AD2525 in their 10Giga Pixel Digiluximus? An interesting thought is if it's possible to zone focus, is it also possible to 'zone' meter? If so, how exactly is it done. Seriously. I'm sure someone in this forum actually knows and practice this. Cheers.

-- Steven Fong (steven@ima.org.sg), February 26, 2002.

Dexter: Need built-in incident readings? Meter off a gray card. ;<)

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), February 26, 2002.

Dexter,

Place a piece of opal glass or similar in front of lens.

-- Dave Doyle (soilsouthlessspam@cox.net), February 26, 2002.

As someone else mentioned, a simple AE lock (that locks for more than 1 exposure), such as one incorporated into the new switch around the shutter release, would have made AE in the M7 a surefire winner.

Why?

Because all you would have to do to get perfect exposure would be to aim at an appropriate "grey" zone, press the AE lock and forget about exposure until the next lighting situation.

People may argue that this is completely equivalent to metering manually in the M6 (or M7) but it is not, ergonomically speaking. You cannot set aperture and shutter speed manually with one flick of a finger, which is what AE lock (with a spot pattern) allows you to do.

Had the M7 been designed with such a feature (quite obvious, really, given the 4 decades of AE camera experience out there), it would be a faster, surer camera than the M6.

Without it, AE adds speed, but sacrifices exposure accuracy, because of the central spot, which may or may not cover the correct area of the scene for metering, in AE mode.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), February 26, 2002.

... You cannot set aperture and shutter speed manually with one flick of a finger, which is what AE lock (with a spot pattern) allows you to do.

Mani: Have you ever used a camera such as you describe? I just recently acquired a Contax 645, and that is precisely how they do AE. You either get continual AE, or there is a switch around the shutter release that you throw to lock the exposure. Once locked, the exposure remains constant until you unlock it. Perhaps it is the same on their 35's. Anyway, I find it either annoying or convenient, depending on the situation. If I am shooting a series of shots in the same light, it is a blessing. It is also handy if I want to bracket, as the shutter speed stays constant as I change the aperture. However, if I am shooting one shot of something, it becomes a royal PITA (read slows the process down) to unlock, re-meter and re- lock for each shot. The continual AE is almost useless for my applications, as what is in the center of my image that corresponds to the metering pattern, is rarely what I want to meter. (Here I sometimes switch from spot ot center-weighted metering, and HOPE the average works out...) So, for one frame I generally either set a manual exposure or flip the stupid lock... IMO, it would be MUCH better if they offered all three options: Continual AE (I'm sure somebody out there wants it...), single-frame AE lock, and constant AE lock. However, that being said, If I could only have one option I would take the the single-frame lock as I think it is the most intuitive to use.

Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 26, 2002.

Glenn:

You are correct for the bulk of this group. However, IMHO Leica is working towards building a larger clientle. People with money do not necessarily know how to meter and shoot pictures the way others do, or want to take the time to learn.

Print film has enough latitude that the average person will be able to say "Take a look at the shots I took with my LEICA.", and get reasonable results. Now they can use their Leica, where before it was like programming a VCR to them.

:?

-- Mark A. Johnson (logical1@catholic.org), February 27, 2002.

Jack, my post was ambiguous. I meant that they should have had a 1- flip (multi-frame) AE lock in addition to the press the shutter button (single-frame) AE lock they already have. I have not used such a camera in 35mm, but have done so in medium format, and it works quite well when one takes a series of pictures in unchanging light (such as when one does portraits).

It would have been very simple to implement...

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), February 27, 2002.

"Now they can use their Leica, where before it was like programming a VCR to them. "

So let them buy Miniluxes.

Why compromise the flagship M camera to make it idiot-proof? If anything, it is less so...

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), February 27, 2002.

The Contax G2 has the right idea: it gives you the option of either (1) setting the main switch to "AEL" or (2) as one of the programmable "custom" functions, it allows you to set autoexposure to lock each time you press the shutter release halfway and hold it down.

-- Cosmo Genovese (cosmo@rome.com), February 27, 2002.

Very good observation. I leave my Hexar on AEL all the time.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), February 27, 2002.

AE is only a feature and you don't have to use it all the time. Besides the convenience of an AE camera is more relevant if you use it with a motor shooting several frames per second. I don't like the M motor so I won't worry about it. If you are shooting portraits with the subject dead center then use AE. If the general scene has the same exposure value then use AE. No single feature is good for all situations. I remember all those SLRs with the exposure lock in the most awkward places I can never reach in the heat of shooting.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), February 27, 2002.

the only camera i know of with built-in incident meter is the top hasselblad 202.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), February 27, 2002.

Dexter: Need built-in incident readings? Meter off a gray card.

i do that. and you and i both know that it's not the same as using an incident meter.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

Place a piece of opal glass or similar in front of lens

sorry, sir, i'm an idiot. please explain.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

Dexter,

They use to sell something, (and I'm guessing the name from 20 years ago), called the Wallace Lumidisc. It was simply a lens cap made of a translucent material that as the advertisement said, "turns any TTL camera meter into an incident meter". Essentially, you mount the lens cap, go to the subject spot and point the camera to where you will take the photo from, just like an incident meter. After you set the exposure, you remove the cap and go do the shot. A couple of the photo magazines at that time did some test and said it did in fact work, but it was not the most convenient way of working.

The product hasn't been advertised for some time, but the same company "Wallace" still makes exposure calculators, (non-powered simple cardboard deals with light levels and ISO speeds), so they might still make the Lumidisc.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), February 27, 2002.

thanks, Al. i learned something new today.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

I think you are forgetting why you selected a Leica in the first place. my EOS-3 does everything like you want with far more ease. however, it doesn't carry with it those special Leica attributes we have come to love. like Dan Brown mentioned, what you are calling AE- lock is as simple as using manual mode. set the aperture, meter, set the shutter speed and expose the entire roll if so desired.

no matter what the metering implementation, it comes down to a judgement by the photographer .. as it should.

-- daniel taylor (lightsmythe@agalis.net), February 27, 2002.

George Wallace has passed on, but his family appears to be still marketing his device.

http://www.expodisc.com/

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), February 27, 2002.

Thanks Mani,

My brain could recall both Wallace and 'Disc, but I blanked on the other part. LumiDisc is from Sekonic. Getting old sucks!

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), February 27, 2002.

Hello Glenn. I figure that operating the AE lock in an M7 will be the same/similar as in a Leica R4s.In practice it's quite simple,quick and handy when you don't want to deliberate over your exposure. Regards.

-- Sheridan Zantis (albada60@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

Whoa, guys! Get real!

Not everybody who buys an M7 is a complete moron who doesn't know how to use an M6. What is so darn difficult in shooting with an M6 that only great genius photographers like you can do it? You select a speed, then select the aperture (turning the ring in the direction prompted by the meter indications in the viewfinder) until the center red dot appears. Or start off with an aperture and turn the speed selector. You don't need a MIT education to do that. No more than to use an M7. The real challenge, of course, is to know where to point the center weighted meter to meter the light, on both cameras, and how to compensate when needed. The M7 offers a fast and intuitive way to do it, lock exposure and concentrate on seeing, framing and focusing. Where's the problem with that? You don't like it? Just use manual. But at least you have the choice. Cheers,

Olivier

-- Olivier Reichenbach (olreiche@videotron.ca), April 17, 2002.