It's out of control! It's out of hand! My kids bring home something every other week it seems! What do you do?

I want to help the school ... to a point. Does the money really go where it should? Isn't there enough government funding?

Isn't there another way to raise money. When my other children begin school, it'll really be out of hand. I feel like a peddler trying to sell to family...a pest. I don't want to burden people. Truth be told, I can't stand it when other peoples kids sell to me!(just being honest) I smile and buy something ... But I really DO NOT have the money.

Then, I don't want my kids to feel funny when everyone else sells and they don't. I try to take them into consideration too.

Anyone else have this problem (granted, this is a minor problem in the big scheme of things but sure gets on my nerves though).

OK, Done venting.

-- Mike in Pa (smfine@yahoo.com), February 28, 2002

Answers

Mike- I have 4 kids in Catholic school, and we also get constsant fund-raising jobs, plus 4-H, plus Scout, sports etc. I've explained to the kids that we have enough Stuff in our lives, and I refuse to sell tiny little teddy bears that are made in China so that the school can keep a small portion of the revenues. It' OK to say no and take a small stand. I've had to explain myself a few times to zealous parents and teachers, but I'm just more comfortable donating cash to a cause I find worthy than filling my home with material goods and mediocre food. And also ignore the pepole who tell you these sales help kids build confidence. The big sellers are the ones whose parents take the order for to work. I could vent for awhile on this subject, too. Offer your time and talent to your school and put your money where it will do some good.

-- Lisa (vadas@nfdc.net), February 28, 2002.

That's a tough one to answer as I can see both sides of the story.

Money from fundraisers usually goes towards the extras... reward parties, class trips, holiday parties, plays, etc. While government money is sometimes used for these things also, there is never enough.

Is this a waste? I don't think so. While we adults enjoy the "extras" in our life, kids need the same consideration. Twelve years of school would be tough without the occasional treat.

At the same time, I am a parent who often must do without for a bit just to participate in these fundraisers. I figure the kids are only little for such a short time. Yes, there are times when I must say, "Sorry not this time." But there are just as many times that I must deny myself something off my "want list." In other words, the wallet is open when I can, and not when I can't. It's a lesson I hope my kids pick up.

-- Red (no@spam.please), February 28, 2002.

Isn't there enough government funding?

Well, considering that many, many teachers are paying for part of their classroom supplies out of their own pockets I'd have to say no, there isn't enough government funding.

Nor do I particularly want the government to fund what is essentially a lot of extracurricular programs which means the kids/schools have to come up with their own funds. If they don't sell stuff to raise funds they'll have to try to make a go of it on donations or just forego those activities.

I'm not going to allow my children to get into constant fund raising either. Those activities that we think are worthwhile we'll make a cash donation to support and keep any selling down to a minimum amount.

.......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), February 28, 2002.

Mike, after seven years of various fundraisers (wrapping paper,xmas cards, candy, popcorn, etc.) I know where you're coming from. I feel very uncomfortable with my children asking others to buy this or that for a fundraiser. In fact, the only time that was an exception was for the American Cancer Society. Even at that, I raised funds at work, with all the other mothers who brought in their children's various fundraisers. I've tryed to find a happy medium, volunteering my time at school when I can, and just writing a ten dollar check to the cause (w/o ordering merchandise). The kids know we don't have the money for all these things and have never seemed to feel less for it. Hope this helps!

-- Terran in VT (homefire@sover.net), February 28, 2002.

My own feeling has been that in most cases the companies are making the lion's share of the profits. I don't know that, I just feel that. But the big issue for me is simply the idea of children peddling goods, period. No way would I ever have allowed mine to go door to door selling stuff. I heard last night that the little girl abducted and likely killed in California had sold something recently to the neighbor accused. It's just not good, in my opinion, to expect little children to do this anymore. I didn't like it when I was a youth, and my children would not participate in it. Period.

-- col (col@nothing.com), February 28, 2002.

I am so happy that my kids are not in school now! For years I felt like a peddler. I have three kids, all the three were in at least 4 different activities(sports, dance, music, church,etc) at any given time. I know that all my friends/family/neighbors got so tired of seeing us coming!!! I finally started saying NO! It felt good. When I thought it was for a good cause I did write a small check and enclose a note! It was tax deductable also!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), February 28, 2002.

Let them have a carwash or two in May. Have some other form of "hands on" fundraising where they actually do something and aren't really peddling. This would teach them in and of itself. Have them at the school. Give each child 1-2 hrs off class to go out and participate( they already get that long off for recess, movies, pep rallies etc.) Their reward would be the funds for field trips etc. You know?

-- Mike in Pa (smfine@yahoo.com), February 28, 2002.

Mike, and others; there is a fairly long post in the archives under family and children regarding this issue - as I recall, lots of good ideas were posted.

My daughter is in many activities also. My solution was to contact the sponsor of the activities; explain that I do not participate in this sort of program and ask exactly how much money per child they expect to collect - not how much in orders; how much they actually GET. I would then write a check for what I considered to be a reasonable amount. Rather than allowing her to participate in these fund raisers, I've simply paid for band trips, cheer camp, uniforms, shoes etc... for my daughter, and also helped out other kids when their parents couldn't do so. Seems to me that it's teaching them a better lesson to do this than to send them out begging. I don't mind the fund raisers if you're getting something useful in exchange for the money - Boy Scout Popcorn, Girl Scout Cookies, Oranges; but 8 pieces of candy for $6 is not acceptable.

-- Polly >^..^< (tigger@moultrie.com), February 28, 2002.

I agree with Polly about selling overpriced candy. I don't let my kids sell things that I wouldn't buy myself.

-- Sherry (tlnifty@ecenet.com), February 28, 2002.

As to the teachers buying supplies out of their own pocket, well, students do too now (common in parochial schools, but only fairly recently in public schools). I don't hold with this "bring a box of tissue/crayons for the class thing"--they should just use one of thse gigantic rolls of toilet paper for each class, and everyone should bring their own supplies, with the school providing adequate security for them.

Fundraisers are a normal part of life in parochial schools, but they shouldn't need them in public school. Have you looked at your property tax bill and seen how much goes to the schools, not to mention any levies that are calculated as assessed value? I do not send my children to school to learn to be obnoxious network marketers. Teachers should not be wasting valuable class time on this stuff.

Parents should also realize that not only is it truly in bad taste to peddle the stuff at work, it is also against rules in many workplaces. And, if you let your kids sell the stuff on the street, since they are not employees, they are not covered in case of an accident or injury.

I think the best option, if you choose to donate (and I truly don't see the need to), is to write a check directly to the school, and that way you can get a tax deduction for charity (no receiptee, no checkee). I also agree with working fundraisers, like car washes. Good way to equate work to money to stuff.

Finally, if schools wanted to save money, instead of making parents go hither and yon for supplies, they could buy them in bulk, have the kids take 1 (or however many) from each box on the first day, and bill the parent for a slightly higher amount than the deal the school got (but still way cheaper than parents driving around everywhere. They could even get people doing community service to make up packets of supplies for the little ones. This would also have the added advantage of everyone having the same thing, so less stealing because one has nicer supplies than another.

I would also keep track of my child, and go right to the teacher and principal if they are made fun of or made to feel bad because of their parent's choice not to be a sheeple.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 28, 2002.

I agree with Polly......it was and is my position that we are only lining the pockets of some business and will not participate by buying over priced goods. Didn't with my children, just paid their way and had them do extra chores at home. I also agree that it is no longer safe for children to be out in the neighborhoods peddling, from some of my childhood experiences I wonder if it ever was. IMHO most of this is like begging rather than selling anyway.

Being of the more senior generation......why the heck did we EVER start paying for school supplies out of tax dollars??? We bought our own when I was in school, except for books which had to be returned in good shape or they were paid for by the student before they got their report card or diploma.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 28, 2002.

Homeschool.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 28, 2002.

Our school only has several fund raiser the kids are involved in. The PTA has the kids sell home interiers candles just before christmas.

I know other schools seems to have year round sales of somthing. I want to know what the money is going for. If its going into a general school fund then I dont want to be part of it. If its going to a specific named project then I am more likley to be involved in it.

We have sent back order forms and unboxed candies, so I dont see an issue with refusing to sell everything.

-- gary (gws@columbus.rr.com), February 28, 2002.

I don't let my children participate in the selling for several reasons, mostly what GT mentioned. I wouldn't feel bad about it Mike. From what I hear, less than half the kids participate in these things.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), February 28, 2002.

Part of the problem too is the "inclusion thing" where everyone gets to compete regardless of skill level. Everyone should be able to take band class (or other activities) as an educational thing, but if the school has only 30 fully funded (not fundraised) positions for a band (uniforms, transportation, entry fees, etc.), well, then let the kids challenge for those spaces for each parade, or every month or so. If that means someone is on Varsity for only part of the year, well, that's life. "Everybody plays" should be finished by the end of 8th grade at the latest. Life is not "everybody plays".

The schools typically make 40-60% of the purchase price of the stuff, but again, consider the fact that while the teachers are doing this on the clock, so to speak, and getting paid, neither you nor your children are getting compensated for your time in any way, shape, or form. Also, sad to say, most of the stuff IS useless junk or junk food (frozen cookie dough, for instance) that you don't need anyway. I mean, I love cookie dough, don't get me wrong, but I would never BUY it, not at those prices.

What I am surprised at is why there have been no lawsuits re: child labor laws, or the fact that the constitutions of at least some states talk about a "free" public school education. If the schools want to offer these activities under the umbrella of education, they should be free.

It has been very difficult (nigh onto impossible in some cases), to find out EXACTLY where the monies raised went, so it is easier to just say no. Same with why it costs $250 (out of your pocket, or you can work the bingo hall so many hours) per year to be in a high school band in one CA school. Getting them to justify the fee is very difficult.

Volunteering, as well--the schools have brainwashed parents into thinking it's necessary, but it is not. Imho, if you think the schools need volunteers, then you need to think about homeschooling. Your first responsibility should be to your own children.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 28, 2002.

GT, I respectfully disagree with you stand on volunteering in the schools. Are you suggesting that we pay chaperones?? When my children were in school I was a room mother and frequently chaperoned trips and would do it again. I felt a part of their schooling and was able to see what was happening. Homeschooling was NOT an option in my state then. At times now I am a mentor at our local junior high and feel that the mentoring program has helped countless children.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 28, 2002.

Diane, my take on it is if things are so bad in schools discipline-wise (lots of parents serve as hall monitors and recess monitors, something only teachers did when I was in school), then it is time to reconsider having the children in school in the first place. Also, if I wanted a regular committment like that, I'd get a credential and get paid for it. In fact, I can't think of any other job right now where it is okay to troll for volunteers as much as the schools do.

Not to slam the good teachers, but if volunteers are grading papers, setting up projects, (in other words, doing grunt work), what's the teacher doing? Also, it is really sad to see how much time parents wind up doing the actual teaching even when the kids ARE going to school (as in either intensively tutoring their own children or paying places like Sylvan Learning Centers, which also weren't around when I was in school). I feel that if volunteering takes up that much time, you may as well homeschool, save tons of money on clothing, fundraising, supplies, etc., and give your child a better education. Teachers not only make pretty good money, considering they don't work a full year, but they get outstanding benefits. If volunteers are doing a good portion of the work, what are the teachers being paid for?

When I went to school, we didn't have parent volunteers--and you didn't need them, the children were pretty well behaved. You didn't even have chaperones on field trips, unless the parent wanted to go along for the ride because they'd never been to a particular place. As far as paying chaperones, I think the school could at least pick up their ticket price as a courtesy. After all, I'm sure the teachers don't pay, and if they do, it is tax deductible for them. Just a thought. And another observation, just because parents can deal with their own kids doesn't mean they want to deal with other people's kids (too many idealistic differences with parents, for one thing :) as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 01, 2002.

We really don't have any of those volunteering problems except "homeroom moms" that go in to help with the holiday parties they have. You're right though, when I was in school, we didn't even have those. I personally don't agree with them asking for them, which they do, but I do think if a Mom or dad wants to be more active THEN it should be allowed.

Just last night, we "had to" make 25 treats for the class. Every student had to bring in treats for the others to celebrate DR. SUESS's BIRTHDAY!!!! What's this????? So the kids get TWENTY FIVE PIECES OF JUNK TO EAT!!! I'm calling on this one.

-- Mike inPA (smfine@yahoo.com), March 01, 2002.

Mike, I would have arranged for an appointment that day for your child, or just call in sick for your child (and yourself, or take spot leave) and go do something fun, but far more educational. If you don't do that, I would complain to the school--and remind them that YOU have a job, and so does your spouse (homemaking too is a job), and that YOU are not a student in her class, so she/he has no right assigning you homework.

I know the above sounds a bit harsh, but school was my responsibility when I was young, none of this "have your parents help you/do this for you" nonsense. No wonder the children aren't actually learning anything on their own. A friend was "helping" his son build an electrical switch for extra credit the other day and I asked "how can the teacher grade you (the son) fairly on something that your father helped you with? Response: The teacher said our parents HAD to help us with this. Me: Well, what about other kids whose parents weren't former electrical workers? Is this fair to them? No answer." I think you see what I'm getting at here. This is not right.

A party for Dr. Seuss! Good grief! Mike, as a last resort when other people ask you to buy stuff, you can always smile and say, "Sorry, I have my own kids to buy stuff from (whether you do or not)." Even they can understand that.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 01, 2002.

Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea (grin), I do think it is a parent's responsibility to take their children to a place where they can do research (the library) or let them on the internet, buy necessary supplies or appropriate substitutes (crayons are crayons), make sure they get enough sleep, etc.

However, I feel it is wrong for a teacher to be assigning homework or projects that force parents to be involved (in other words, the homework is NOT age/grade appropriate), and even worse, food projects at the last minute. A lot of parents are single, divorced, work weird hours, and so forth, not to mention may not be versed in the subject (like the aforementioned electrical project). Would it hurt them to learn, no, of course not. But they should not be intimidated by the school to drop everything just to help with this or that, either. I think a lot of teachers/schools have really lost sight of reality, and the fact that other people have lives too.

If people want to volunteer, I completely agree, Mike, they should be allowed to. But, I don't agree with holding "x% of the parents in this class volunteer, why don't you?" over the heads of the rest of the parents (and probably subconsciously over the students, as well).

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 01, 2002.

Wow, and I thought I was older than dirt. Just how old are you people anyway?? When I was in school we had room mothers and chaperones on trips, when my MOTHER was in school my GRANDMOTHER was a room mother. Sheesh.................I sure hope you are all homeschooling cause I sure would HATE to be the teacher of your kid's class.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 01, 2002.

I went to school in CA not all that long ago, both parochial and public. We had the occasional band mother, but they went along mostly to take pictures of their band kids, or lead-baton-twirling daughter, not really to ride herd on us.

I repeat, we did not have the discipline problems then that we do now. When I was in school, a teacher could teach 30-35 students without help, and they did not cause problems if the teacher had to take a bathroom break.

That may not be true today, depending upon where your kids go to school. If the children are discipline problems, they should be booted out until they straighten out, and even public schools can do that (since they will boot you out for everything else these days, like taking Midol to class). If your kids aren't discipline problems, why should you babysit kids who are, and for free no less?

Many schools today want it both ways--they want to control what your child learns (politically as well as religious), and they want the parents to not only buy into it, but work for free, when some of the parents are clearly at least as well-educated or better educated than the teachers. They can afford to pay for this or that "motivational seminar" (often using uncredentialed people), or fundraising, or a myriad of other goof off things like parties but can't afford even a stipend for volunteers. Go figure.

I think a lot of people send their kids to school because they want to get something for their tax money (guaranteed babysitting for 12 years at the very least--most of what I learned at school I could have learned outside of it), but would take them out if they could get even a little of that money back. I am a little concerned about the volunteers these days as well--are they even background checked? The teachers have to be, to some extent, and they still can't catch the bad ones.

So, some fundraising and some volunteering might be a good thing, but it has to be monitored, like any other charitable giving. It never hurts to question why someone/some organization is asking for something (time/money/whatever). If the answer is good, I give, if not, I reserve the right not to give.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 01, 2002.

I want to support the school's PTA. They do good things, they built a new swingset in the playground, they pay for some fieldtrips, etc. I hate fundraisers. I just send the envelope back with a check made out to the PTA directly. The PTA gets only half of the money collected for the stuff they sell. Same goes for the band fundraisers for their trips to other cities.

-- Joan Murray (alandjoan@juno.com), March 01, 2002.

I no longer buy any "fund raising" item, even Girl Scout cookies. In my opinion most items are extremely overpriced and the kids just get a little of the money. And it really irks me when parents bring their kid's fund raising stuff to work- I feel that it's extremely inappropriate. The children themselves are supposed to be doing the work, not the parents.

There are better ways to earn money for special events/trips. Our local FFA holds a farm equipment auction each year- they get a portion of the commission. The 4-H holds a stallion service auction (the stallion owners actually bring the horse to the auction site)- I think the kids get half the stud fee, the stallion owner gets the other half. One local school grows pointsettias before Christmas. High school kids are also quite capable of running food and/or game booths at local events. I don't mind spending a buck on a raffle ticket either, as long as the prize is something of value- one guy at work was selling $2 raffle tickets where the prize was worth maybe $10.

Just say "No", Mike in Pa. If enough parents refuse to allow their children to participate, then maybe the schools will rethink their position on "fund-raising".

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), March 02, 2002.

Just think what school fundraising says to a child involved in it.

He is made to feel guilty for not volunteering the little free time he may have, to become a salesman to the neighborhood. All this to support an Institution of the Government which he is legally forced to attend, and his parents are legally forced to fund.

It seems an awful lot to me like something little German children of the 1930's might have been under emotional pressure to participate in.

Group-thinking is accomplished in a nation only one generation after all the children are trained to group-think.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), March 03, 2002.

I am a homeschool mother of 2 girls (3 and 6) and my eldest daughter was in public school in K-the first half of 1st grade. Every month she brought home something to buy or sell, and at times we were "strongly advised" ( to quote her k teacher) to purchase class T- shirts because she was going to "feel left out" if everyone had one but her. HA!!! My daughter could care less about that blasted shirt then OR now. And NO, I do not homeschool because of anything my child has done or not done.....it's that I went to that same public school, and it is the same now as it was then.....money hungry. With all the fundraisers that PTO/PTA put on, and ALL the money they spent on sports equipment, you'd think they would have purchased some new books for the library, or a few computers, or fixed that rotten sagging ceiling tile that was black and moldy, and made everyone sick all of the time.....but they didn't. Instead, all they did was manage to get some new football stuff. Is this what my hard earned $$ goes to pay for when I buy this stuff I don't need? I think that education reform WON'T happen until we: the parents refuse to let things stay the way they are now!!! As far as fundraising, public education should be FREE.....not the cost of a T- shirt, or our childrens dignity.

-- Lizzie in NC (lizzie@appstate.net), April 22, 2002.