I have finally (equipped with Lutz Konermann's estimable sling and shade) got to grips with using my .85 and 90 saa with non-stationary subjects. Recently, at my kid's party' I used a vivitar 283 flash (auto) in bounce position and got reasonable results (I would of preferred to be able to choose a wider aperture as with a ttl gun). I never use direct flash - I hate it - even a bit off camera, even with a stofen attached. I have read elsewhere on this forum that the c.400g w/out batteries weight of this flash gun can put the r/f out. Assuming this is so, should I use a bracket-based flash gun? Would that make handling totally impossible? If not, which one would be a good one to go for? BTW, I recommend Lutz's excellent (and cheap!) little add-ons.

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), March 01, 2002

Answers

Back in "the day" when I did press photography with the M's I used a big mother of a flash. The Metz CT-60, guide number 197! Big bad potatoe masher flash with separate battery.

I could cover an olympic pool and bounce of a cathedral ceiling.

These days I use my Nikons' SB-24/25 on M's and the Hexar with the Nikons auto setting needing to be nudged a bit for negs I like. So if it says 5.6 on the flash I set 4-5.6 on the camera. It's a reflex now. I'm perfectly content using it that way and I don't have a TTL body anyway.

Is the top plate of a current M so thin a flash in the shoe tweaks it out of shape? Hard to believe. Is this something someone has seen on film? Can't say I've seen it with the Nikon on the Hexar or an M4.

-- Neil Swanson (neilsphoto@yahoo.com), March 01, 2002.

Steve, the only flash I now possess is a good old Metz CL4, nicad hammerhead. This was purchased 2nd hand many years ago and will I am sure, outlast me! They are incredibly powerful, work with any camera and using the auto sensor are unbeatable for simple fill flash. They also have the extra forntal fill flash when bouncing.

My Leica actually mounts on it very well to give a nicely balanced set up, sure it's bulky but I find the Leica combination better handling than my old EOS 5.

I used it (bouncing off the ceiling) with the Voigtlander 15mm recently and the light spread and output was perfect.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 01, 2002.

Steve, forgot to say it's the 45CL4 - if it helps, here's a pic of the set-up:

Sort of goes against the stealth image of the M, but hey, if you're going to use a flash you may as well use a big one!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 01, 2002.

I've been using a Metz 32-Z2 on my M6TTL since I got the camera with no RF problem at all. I find it difficult to believe that a reasonable-size flash used on the shoe would cause a problem in ordinary usage; however, if it's knocked really hard or dropped it probably would. Otoh that would probably either break off the flash foot, tear the shoe out of the top plate or, in the case of modern wunderplastik technoblasters, just tear a gaping hole out of the top of the camera. I've seen several examples of that.

At any rate, the 32-Z2 is a medium-size flash of much lower profile than the 283 so presumedly there'd be less strain on the shoe, but the plastic foot of the 283 is designed to simply break if subjected to too much stress.

The 32-Z2 is 283-class power, giving enough juice for bounce flash at f5.6 (or of course wider apertures) in any rooms you'd reasonably consider using bounce flash with EI 400 films.

BTW, I noticed that my flash negs were a bit thin so I did some testing using a Wallace Expo-Disc (18% diffuser disc) over the lens and found that for both bounce and direct flash the exposure-compensation switch on the module needs to be set to +1 to yield the same density as a normal reflected-light metered exposure. Or iow, the continuous-light meter than the flashmeter in the camera/flash combination don't agree by one stop.

-- John Hicks (jhicks31@bellsouth.net), March 01, 2002.

If you do use a bracket with the 283, be sure to buy the Vivitar off- camera cord, not just use a long PC cord. The Vivitar cord lets you pull the auto sensor off the flash and place it in the part of the cord that fits in the hot shoe, so the sensor continues to read down the lens' axis...this makes special sense with longer lenses. I also suggest the little snoot sold by [I think] Sto-Fen that narrows the 283's sensor reading angle and shields it from stray light.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), March 01, 2002.

Steve

I use my 285 (as the 283 but with silly zoom head)on my M6TTL with an old Vivitar bracket - or you could use a stroboframe etc. It works well, but as Giles says with his kit, is hardly unassuming. But you will need the remote auto cable for the sensor. I completely agree with you about flash, but sometimes it is a necessity. I find the Vivitar works well and you can still bounce from the bracket just the same - my bracket rotates the head too which is very useful for side or back bouncing when necessary.

If you do not have it on a bracket I think the camera is very poorly balanced quite apart from the r/f issue. With a bracket handling is much improved.

I have Lutz's thing too which I have only tried out once so far with my SF20.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), March 01, 2002.

Thanks for the responses. I've tried a hammer head flash and hated the handling. Not sure what exactly to do...

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), March 02, 2002.