Did anybody watch the HBO America Undercover documentary last night? Was she spilling her guts, or was it an exercise in self-promotion? What did you think about it?

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Answers

I was thinking of starting a thread on this, too. I thought it was really good, and because I have a special place in my heart for her, it has been on my mind all day today.

She still seems to have no protective walls, too vulnerable for someone her age. I want to say that I just can't imagine being raked over the coals the way she has been, but I think we all can imagine it very clearly. Christ, she's been so humiliated and so burned it's painful to watch her speak about it, and she reminds me of that friend who you just plain beg not to keep calling the ex who dumped her cold but you know she can't help herself, and all you can do is watch her keep trying and keep getting hurt over and over.

And Linda Tripp. Good lord, what else is there to say about that woman?

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I find it interesting that opinions on Monica are divided so clearly along gender lines, even in my own house. I am profoundly sympathetic to her, and it seemed like most of the women in the audience were too. But one guy in the audience blatantly insulted her, and another called everything she'd said "drivel" and complained that in presenting her version of events, she was being too one-sided. Are guys too hard on her? Or are we women too eager to give her a break?

Ugh, Linda Tripp. When they played the clip of Linda dangling the intern story in front of lawyers's noses? And then right after that, the clip of Monica APOLOGIZING to that frickin wildebeast for upsetting her, after Linda has browbeaten Monica for putting her in the position to be subpeonaed? She doesn't belong IN the basement, she belongs UNDER the basement.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I feel sorry for Monica because she was so very young and ignorant and immature, and unfortunately upset the balance of the world by behaving like most girls in their early 20s have behaved at at least one point in their lives.

She just happened to make a huge fool of herself with the President of the United States in front of the entire Universe. It took an amazing lack of good judgment on her part, and a stunning lack of self esteem and grace.

I haven't seen the documentary, but I do feel sorry for her because she obviously was not equipped with a sense of right and wrong and the reality check needed to wake most people up to the fact that their desire for personal attention does not make their actions excusable in every situation - especially when factoring in a marriage and, you know, the leader of the free world.

She just wanted someone to love her and want her - all of us want that - but she placed her own need for drama over everything else.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

There's an interesting article about it here (NYT registration required). I am definitely inclined to give her quite a bit of leeway, but I'm not sure how much it has to do with gender. I like to think that my sympathy for her has more to do with power relations (Bill had real power, she had the Power of the Thong), but lots of that is bound up in gender, too.

I don't know. Lots of it looked and felt like a televised session with a therapist, which made me feel very uncomfortable. And then there's the motive question. She talks about how hard it was to have her sex life all over the press, but then she approached HBO with the idea for this special. (Interestingly, the same team that produced/directed this documentary did The Eyes of Tammy Faye, as well, which was excellent. And narrated by RuPaul!)

I have to wonder what the point of an exercise like this is: for someone who claims to want a private life, she seems to be seeking the spotlight as soon as it was legally feasible to do so.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I wrote an entry about this today.

I think she went ahead and answered stuff now in hopes that she won't have to keep answering them for the rest of her life.

I completely sympathize with her.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Ya know, she repeatly gave blow jobs to a married man who was also the president of the US, what did she expect?

She is not an innocent victim. Yes, she got used by every party in the ensuing melee for their owm purposes. But I don't think we didn't know who the "real Monica" was becuase she got used and abused by so many people. The "real Monica",ho was an anonymous White House intern, decided to have oral sex with the President.

I'm not saying she's a whore. I'm just saying that if you do something stupid, don't try to sugar coat it.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I thought the documentary was excellent. I also have a lot of sympathy for her, and I DO think it's divided down gender lines. I almost lost it when that one girl from her high school was talking about their former teacher and Monica's ex-lover. It's one thing to say that she knew what she was doing. It's another thing to truly understand what it feels like to think that you really honestly don't deserve any better.

I can understand her motiviation for doing the show. And of COURSE it was one-sided. Duh.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Well, she didn't think anyone would ever find out. Maybe that's dumb, but that's what she thought.

Secondly, that married man who was the President decided that he would most certainly like some oral sex by someone other than his wife. Monica isn't the only stupid person.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Oh, hell no. The President behaved like an idiot and an ass. His actions were patently selfish and dangerous, and he showed himself to be a weak and capable of deplorable actions, just like she did.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I didn't see it, but am voting for "an exercise in self-promotion." If you want people to stop associating your name as "that girl that blew the President and got Bush elected", quit doing everything in your power to stay in the public eye, lamenting your bad situation and trying to generate pity. Let the scandal die the death it would naturally, and then try to redeem yourself.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I don't know about that. I damn sure would have a hard time letting go and just accepting the fact that everyone in the world feels free to call me names and say the most vile and ugly things about me. I have the feeling that I would still, 2 years later, be trying to fix it, trying to make people understand that not everything that the media said is true.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Actually, it was more like 3 years later. '98 to '01, right? The thing that surprised me was the duration of their relationship. It was a two year period. That shocked me, actually. Sure it was on and off and there were months that they didn't see each other, but still.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I am watching it now, and she breaks my heart. I am happy that she is finally legally able to tell her side of things, and to clear up all the rumours thrown around about her. You can't blame her for wanting to clear the air, after listening to everyone in the world except her getting to air their opinions about what she did.

I can't imagine what her life must be like, and I would never want to find out. Mostly, I think she has stayed remarkably gracious in the face of it all.

Don't get me started on Bill Clinton. What a weasel!

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

My question is, if you want to clear the air about all the things bad things said about you, but to do that and be honest at some point you have to say, "I didn't want blah, blah, blah, I just wanted to give The married President oral sex on several occasions", how good can you come out looking?

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I have her book. Mainly I just feel bad for her. Really, really bad. I mean, god help me if the stupidest thing I did when I was 22- hell, I'm only 24, god help me if the stupidest thing I did last week- became worldwide public knowledge and news. I have no idea how I'd deal with it. None.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Actually she was involved with him in more ways than blow jobs. I was so relieved when she pointed out that an entire relationship has been boiled down to her sucking his dick. That alone would hurt like hell.

There is no graceful way to say "I was in love with a married man", but people have admitted to much worse and taken much less shit for it. I've been in unhealthy relationships, too, but I don't feel that I deserve to be judged so harshly.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

It is killing me that y'all are calling it "a relationship."

Yeah, they were two people involved with each other, but it was by no means a relationship based on anything other than him having his physical needs met, and her having her emotional needs met. They weren't actually relating about anything.

I know he bought her gifts and stuff, but it was only to maintain the status quo. They did not love each other - they didn't even know each other. Because, really, how could they? Clandestine blow jobs and little crush notes? Sorry, but it was just a tragic and trashy little secret thrill for both of them with which they humiliated the entire country and besmirched what would otherwise have been a (fairly) decent presidential record.

I do feel sorry for her, because her youthful indescretions are now a part of history, and she is looked upon much more negatively than he is. Most of us only have ourselves to answer to when it comes time to look back on the mistakes we've made. It will be difficult for her to ever have a "normal" life outside of the spotlight. I hope she goes to therapy every single day.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

H -- the girl who had been advanced upon by Monica's former high school drama teacher/lover really touched me too. That girl was basically begging Monica to lay a portion of blame at the teacher's feet (projecting big time too), and Monica did not take that out. Another part that touched me -- she is obviously still very traumatized by what happened to her when Ken Starr and Co. detained her. I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been.

What did a young woman having sex with the President expect? Should she have expected the same as Roosevelt's secretary? As JFK's many lovers? Or should she have expected that she would be used and manipulated by soulless opportunists to the point of arrest, lose her anonymity permanently, and have the name her father gave her become a synonym for cocksucking, while the guy she sucked walked away smelling like roses and is and will be remembered fondly as an excellent if charmingly flawed President? How does a 21-year-old anticipate that?

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I don't know. We're never going to know the extent of what they said to each other when they were alone, and how personal they got. But in her eyes, at the very least, it was a relationship, and I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she thought it was at least as close to a relationship as it could be, given the circumstances.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I agree, hannah. She thought it was a relationship, as f'ed up as that is. And how hurtful would that be? To think that this man who you thought was attracted to and fond of you, who caressed and kissed you, testified that you didn't have "relations" but that you simply serviced him. How cruel. I didn't think highly of Clinton before, but boiling it down to those bare, raw terms took my opinion of him lower, a feat I wouldn't have thought possible.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I'm having trouble feeling sorry for her.

Because of this she probably is better off financially then she ever would have been, she has movies being made about her, and she has a nice segment of the population feeling sorry for her, even though she decided to fuck around with a married man.

Stupid, please. Getting a speeding ticket is stupid. Leaving the freezer door open is stupid. If we, as a nation, can be unforgiving enough of youth to the point that we will can pass laws to kill teenagers and mentally handicapped people, how can Monica Lewinsky be excused for being "young"?

And she is upset because she isn't being remembered as a nice person by a bunch of people she will never, ever have to meet on a personally level.

All things considered, she is probably making out a lot better than most presidential mistresses.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Good lord, what should she be excused for? She didn't suck off your husband.

I wouldn't wager to guess whether or not she is better or worse off financially, considering the trouble she will forever have finding a job. But as for faring better because she will make money off of being treated like a piece of shit by a nation? I don't think that makes it better for her, compared to other presidential mistresses.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

All things considered, she is probably making out a lot better than most presidential mistresses.

Oh, heck no. Nan Britton alone made out like a bandit compared to Monica. Heck, Gennifer Flowers has made out better than Monica, when you consider the amount of dignity-traded-in-for-fame ratio.

And it was Clinton's behavior, not hers, that made the whole matter a constitutional issue. If Clinton hadn't gotten himself into hot water with Paula Jones in the first place, Monica could have had a stupid affair with a married man and gotten away with the usual bad emotional consequences, instead of having an entire presidency hinge on her actions. Is she morally in the wrong? Yes. Is she as much to blame as Clinton is? Absolutely not. Is she going to be financially as well-off as Clinton will be, in the long run? Absolutely not.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

By the way, this article, more than anything that happened with Monica, was what sealed my opinion of Clinton.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

But how do we know it was NOT a relationship? Who are we to judge what does and does not constitue a "relationship" or on what basis something qualifies? Be it gifts, blowjobs or anything else.

I feel sorry for her. I think she is a needy woman who got a big boost of self esteem by being involved with the President. I think that she allowed herself to fall in love with someone who clearly was unavailable, but deceived herself, much like we are all capable of doing when we want to believe in something that's not true.

And while it may have been a blowjobs-under-the-desk kinda thing for him, it was a relationship in her mind. I think that the definition of a relationship is very subjective & it's not fair to say that what she was experiencing was not a relationship. It was a relationship, with a very married, very unavailable man.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

What it comes down to for me is that their relationship, if we are going to call it that, turned out as badly as it possibly could save one of them actually killing the other one.

They played a dangerous game and both got caught. The President did not come out smelling like roses! The man was impeached. He humiliated his family.

Monica did something very risky and is now paying the consequences. I don't think she is coming off better than anyone's mistress. She's a mistress. She always will be. It's going to be impossible for anyone to ever forget that.

What I was trying to say above is that we've all done things we can be ashamed of, and unfortunately everyone in the world knows about hers. The humiliation she suffered at the hands of Ken Starr and the and his partisan goons was a direct result of her own actions.

YES, Clinton should have been the wiser member of the duo and said "Hey, you know what? I'm married. I'm a father. I'm the President. Doing this will ruin my life and most certainly yours if we are ever found out. Let's be smart and not do it." But he didn't. But neither did she. She's no one's victim.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

I just wonder how many women would be so sympathetic to poor Lil' Miss Cigar's plight if it was their husband she was having the affair with.

I'm guessing at that point, she'd cease being a victim and start being "that hussy that sucked off my husband".

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

And another thing:

Have y'all ever had a friend who continues to be involved with someone who is so, so bad for her and you keep saying "Hey, Monica, you're much too good for him! Break it off with the bastard!"

And your friend Monica is all "But I looooove him! You don't understand! Only I understand our special relationship!"

I bet five thousand that y'all look at your friend Monica and say "girl, what is WRONG with you?"

So, yeah, I feel sorry for her, because she allowed herself to get caught up and STAY caught up for TWO YEARS with this manipulative man when she KNEW that he was using her, and worse, that she was using him for a little excitement in her low-self-esteem-I-think-nobody- desires-me-so-I-am-going-to-use-my-sexuality-as-a-calling-card-world.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Droogie, the girl would be a secondary issue. I might politely ask that she clean up the blood I'd spilled by hacking my husband into a million tiny little pieces.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Al - and that's exactly why I feel sorry for her. And I imagine that most of the people who feel badly for her do so because they've been in similar situations themselves and they know how ravaged and low you have to be to make such ridiculously shitty decisions. She even said that.

I do think she's a victim, to some extent, but I also don't think that's an excuse. Believe me when I tell you that I, of ALL people, have no patience for mistresses. But I also think that she's been served WAY more than her share of the blame pie. Way more.

Because really, when the most powerful man in the world, who you also just happen to LOVE, tells you sign something and that everything will go away, you do it.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

Al, I've not only known that girl, I have been that girl. I think love has made an idiot out of most of us at some point.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

WG, I feel exactly the same way. That's why I desperately wanted Hillary to smack him DOWN on national TV, like, kung-fu style.

People should be responsible for their own actions, I think. If I was married to someone who cheated on me, the betrayal would come at the hands of my spouse, not the person he cheated with.

And Monica should feel responsible for her part in this hideous drama because she should have known better. I don't care what they said to each other privately and whether or not she thought it was a relationship and whether or not he told her he loved her and blahdie blah - let's put the skunk on the table and talk about the stink:

They both showed their asses. They may not be evil, they may not be "bad people," it may be sad that everyone uses "Lewinsky" as a verb for giving head, but come on. Nobody is innocent, here. Nobody was acting without risk. Both of them behaved with extreme selfishness and paid the price.

Now, that doesn't mean that she is not worthy of sympathy, because I believe she is. What happened as a result of their relationship is very unfortunate. I feel bad for anyone who has to live under the spectre of their own bad judgment for the rest of their lives.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2002

This Salon interview with the documentarians is pretty interesting.

Especially the part where they note that Monica isn't at ALL happy with the film.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

I don't know why that link won't work.

Try this:

http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/int/2002/03/01/monica/index.ht ml?x

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

Thanks for that link, H. It IS interesting, because the filmmakers mention having the exact same misconceptions some people here have. I wonder why Monica is so unhappy with the film when she comes across so sympathetically (in my opinion). The only thing I can figure is, she must feel like she was once again misrepresented by the media. And yet she keeps coming back and coming back, and trying again even though she's constantly disappointed. It's that same cycle with her.

I thought the interview was great but I have like 75 issues with the introduction paragraph. For one thing, a harsh spotlight is anything BUT flattering, and she didn't appear to be overly made up to compensate. Of course she freakin washed her hair before the filming. And while I agree the "sitting cross-legged at the edge of the stage" thing was kind of contrived and obvious (and was revealed in the interview to be NOT her idea), it's not the most slenderizing OR comfortable position so how is can be seen to "reek of sheer narcissism" is beyond me. And he's mistaken the audience's respect and empathy with "solemn reverence" of her. Like they all wish they could be her.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

I'm so late to the discussion here ...

I finally saw Monica B&W last night and it sparked a HUGE argument between my roommate and I. It's still so amazing to me, no matter your opinion on Monica, Clinton, whomever, how Monica and her part in the whole scandal passionately divides people.

I remember what a complete jack-ass I was in a relationship I was in when I was 22. In fact, when the Monica story broke, that very relationship was beginning its eventual demise. I can tell you that some of the things I did then make me cringe. I have a physical reaction when I remember how I conducted myself and the things I did. If I was still held accountable for what I did -- now that I look back with the wisdom and the strength to know I was stupid -- I feel so much sympathy for Monica.

There are moments when I question her motives and tactics, and admittedly wonder why someone who wants to be a private person runs to Vanity Fair Oscar parties. But, the reality is that Monica is fucked from having a normal life. And, she DID get a raw deal. She did not make out as well as the others may have. And, for God's sake, I'm sorry -- she's what? 28? She didn't kill anyone -- she was a stupid girl who sucked off the President.

Now, I'm not saying she doesn't bare some of the responsibility for her own fate; after all, nave or not, there are consequences to every action we make and we aren't given the luxury of not accepting responsibility just because of youth.

Where my My sympathy for Monica just stems from that place where we all have where we once did some really stupid shit and we were really lucky to learn from that shit and move on. Monica's fuck ups will follow her for the rest of her life. I say -- go HBO-ing and hand- bagin' all you want, Girl.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

I just want to say [everything that Allison and the MOC already said but with lots of hand motions and !!!!!'s].

Thank you.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2002

Maybe I am going to sound harsh here, but I see Monica as nothing but a ho who was "in love" with Bill's power. There is no screw up here, this was not just a "mistake." Mistakes are leaving your headlights on or dropping a gallon of milk on your front porch. This chick has some severe issues to work out before she can ever be classified as "a normal person who just made a silly mistake." Not ALL young people make asses out of themselves by giving a married man head. Bill wasn't clean here either. He is a weak, sad little man who, despite the media and their little love affair with portraying him as a "playboy," will be remembered for nothing other than getting head in the oval office by some little girl that he held his power over.

I am witnessing the after effects of an affair in my own household right now. Yes, it's only my sister and brother in law, but I feel like he cheated on me and his son too. The one I feel sorry for is Chelsea. Hillary could have left, it was her choice to stay connected to this man, but Chelsea has no choice. This screw up of a president will always be her father.

-- Anonymous, March 07, 2002

I've just watched the programme. I reckon, when all's said and done, she looks pretty damn sexy, doesn't she? Nice one Bill, you old dog you.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002