I have one 4 or 5 year old goat in a herd of eleven who simply will not get along with any of the others except her yearling daughter (she even rejected her male offspring at birth). It wouldn't be so bad if she was merely grumpy or standoffish, but she is extremely belligerant to the others - particularly her young son and one other yearling female. (The little female is currently nursing a sore ankle from having it violently twisted in the older goat's horns!) She wanders around the goat yard looking for anyone not paying close attention, then she rams them as hard as she can - usually knocking them off their feet! She is perfectly docile with people - just can't stand other goats. The obvious thing would be to get rid of her, but ironically enough, I love the old biddy. She was my first goat and a rescue from an abusive situation, so I really don't want to chance sending her into another one. I have thought of seperating her in her own yard, but wouldn't want her to be lonely (goats are so social normally). I can't seperate her along with her daughter either because the youngster would then be seperated from her twin brother whom she adores. HELP! Are there such things as (natural, preferably) goat tranquilizers or mellowing agents? Anything I can do to relax her, or modify her behaviour? (Goat psychiatrists?! HA!) The funny thing is, she was never this aggressive until we had 6 babies born last year - she got along (mostly) with the adults until the little ones came along - then all of a sudden she hated everyone! SUGGESTIONS ANYONE?!

-- Deborah Stephenson in MO (wonkaandgypsy@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002

Answers

Is Violet the violator at your house, she's fast because the ole girl was just on my milking stand. She is a 5 year old doe that is left from our first girls, she's got a huge scur and hates everyone except her own current doe kid . Her's the deal why she's not either down the road or in a pot of chilli. She gives me 7 1/2# of milk most mornings and is great when she gets on the stand. Violet keeps me on an emotional roller coaster. Everyday is live, die, hate, love.

I am very interested in this thread and Violet should be too.

-- sherry (chickadee259@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

Bar-be-que.

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), March 05, 2002.

I once had a doe like yours, mine also had been abused. I think that mine was mostly aggressive when I was present- she was very jealous of the other does getting attention from me. Maybe that's why she slammed into them. You know, in my experience, goats that have been abused can come around somewhat, but they never forget it entirely, and that's sad. You could try lavishing lots of attention on her the first thing when you get to the barn, really overdo it and see if that makes a difference. Does this doe have horns? Having them surgically removed would do wonders for her attitude. You may have to seperate her in the longrun, and let her live out her years in peace.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 05, 2002.

I don't mean to be terribly negative here, but are you talking about dairy animals here?? An aggressive horned doe with dairy animals is a disaster waiting to happen IMO.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

Hi -- don't know if this would work with a goat or not, but we've used it successfully when introducing a new and extremely agressive dog to our pack: it's a Bach's Flower remedy called Rescue Remedy. You have to give it (it's expensive, but you can dilute it in distilled water, 1 drop of RR to 1 pint of water -- this from my vet) a few times a day for about a week before you start to notice a difference, but it really works. I use it when I get new chicks to help with the stress of shipping and in other stressful situations for the critters around here (and the 2-legged critters, too!).

Andrea in NY

-- Andrea in NY (andreagee@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

Diane, No on the dairy goat question. These guys and girls are purely in the pet category. We milked a couple of the does for awhile, but that was not our original plan - it's just that "the buck stopped here" last fall and we ended up with more of them than we intended. We like the manure for the garden so its been a fair exchange for their keep. And before anyone asks why we don't eat them, we're vegetarians. (Lacto-ovo.) We now have a (totally neutered) "stable" community, so the milk thing is no longer viable.

-- Deborah Stephenson in MO (wonkaandgypsy@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

I have a fantastic goat curry recipe....

-- Tracy (trimmer31@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Hi Deborah, hopefully her son is wethered?

The best way to change a goats attitude towards her pen mates is to dehorn her. I would never recommend surgical dehorning by your vet, there are excellent sites on how to dehorn yourself with castration rubbers. Obviously make sure your herd is up on their Tetanus vaccines. She will loose her place as herd queen or at least become one, that though she can butt, can not do harm with horns. I really don't think, unless you are talking fullblood Boer who has to be horned to show, that horns have anyplace on the homestead. To close of quarters, perhaps the 6 more goats added to the mix, just made for to tight of space in the barnyard. With fly season just round the corner, make any decision on dehorning now! Here are some excellent sites.

http://www.skybusiness.com/goatscanada/index91.html

Opps! The others are missing in action from my favorite folder! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Hi Vicki! Yes her son is wethered. We won't make that mistake again!

I don't know about the dehorning... why NOT a vet? I kind of like the natural look and I'm not too sure abbout doing anything that serious myself. I guess it would be worth it to allow her to get along with the others if no other option presents. Still hoping for some kind of therapy answer (not likely, I know).

Andrea, I've never heard of Rescue Remedy. What is it exactly? What is it supposed to do and where can I get it?

Thanks everyone! (Curry? Chili? Barbecue? Thanks guys!!!)

-- Deborah Stephenson in MO (wonkaandgypsy@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

A vet will surgical remove the horns which will leave holes open into the sinus cavity, it is painful, it can be a mess if you aren't very careful to prevent infection, and it leaves them head shy. Go to the site, look at the photos and the shear number of goats the gal did, there is also another site I can't find. It is in the archives. Between the two gals they did more than 100 goats, not one problem! Look at the info yourself, any folks who say that dehorning like this is horrible, will tell you that surgical removal is far worse! The worse part of all is that she will get worse as she grows older, and until she looses her herd status because of advanced age or injury, you have a bully on your hand. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Don't think you want to get rid of her because of the milk. We had one like that and we hated her too. Eventually took her to the auction as we didn't want her to hurt anyone else.

-- Narita (hsnrs@att.net), March 05, 2002.

With a doe like this, being head shy might be an advantage! I have taken horns off with bands and also sawn them off. The sawing went OK, the electric saw seemed the fastest and least traumatic. Banding is more gradual and less stressful, but when I used bands on large horn, they didn't work. The surgical dehorning is stressful too, and it seems like the vets leave unnecessarily large holes-much larger than what happened when I sawed them off. But if you don't want to do it yourself, there really isn't any other choice than to use the vet. I think you would be amazed at the change in attitude after her horns are gone. Yes, horns are natural. It's also perfectly natural for the bigger stronger does to kill off the weaker ones, if not directly, then by chasing them from the feed all the time.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 05, 2002.

Rebekah, Sorry - didn't mean to overlook you in responding. You're right about the jealousy thing. When she was my one and only goat, she followed me everywhere like a dog - even took long walks in the woods. Then we got a second goat and she became a little bit aggressive. As the herd has increased, And, unfortunately we have had to pen them (to keep them and our young German Shepherd from interacting!) she has gotten worse. I try to love her as often as I am able, but with so many it is getting hard to have enough time. That is, of course, NO EXCUSE, but it is hard. Especially when, given her behaviour to the others, I seem more inclined to get furious these days. But... now that I think about it, I think you are right on the money. Like most insecure and abused children, she needs to be understood and loved a little bit more. Thanks for reminding me of something I should have remembered all along!

-- Deborah Stephenson in MO (wonkaandgypsy@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Deborah, remember always, that Vickie is right! Unless, of course, I disagree with her, LOL! I bought a mother/daughter bully team last spring. They HAD horns, and were liberal in their use. These two does teamed up, and beat up on every goat I had. They were monsters, but I wanted the genetics, so I de-horned them after fly season with the bands that Vickie is suggesting. You would be AMAZED at the difference! It takes about 6 weeks for the horns to drop off, so either do it RIGHT NOW (my vote) or wait until fall. I only have one with horns right now, because I didn't use duct tape to keep her from rolling the bands off last fall. When I trimmed hooves last week, this doe reared up as if she were going to butt heads with ME! Yes, She is wearing bands, AND duct tape. I am the HEAD DOE around here. Remember that horns can hurt YOU! Take the horns off, and you can still enjoy your goat.

-- Judy in IN (whileaway3@cs.com), March 05, 2002.

I would certainly agree with all the suggestions of having the horns removed. I had a pygmy that I had bought once and put her in with my four hornless dairy goats and she proceeded to beat the tar out of them. I had them sawed off, and I had a totally different goat. We just sprayed the holes with that blue wound dressing and then I wrapped her head with gauze and taped it, then left it until it fell off. It looked odd, but it worked. She healed up just fine and we got along well. I do not like horns of any kind. A neighbor's buck last year that had a nice BIG set of horns left me with a foot long bruise on each thigh. I'm just glad it was me instead of one of the children that live around here, and that that was all the damage I got.

-- Kathy Craft (jkglc@alltel.net), March 06, 2002.

i also agree with the dehorning-if the kids are still young, disbud them asap. this is best done with the iron-ask around for people with dairy goats in your area-many will do it very cheap. it is best done when they are very young, and far easier than the dehorning of older goats. not only are horns dangerous for people, they get caught in fences (the grass is always greener) and goats can break a neck or get attacked by dogs before you get them out. i made the mistake of not disbudding last year (had 10 boys, no girls) and have regretted it the 15 times or more i've had to disengage a goat from the fence.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), March 07, 2002.