Had seen some attactive offers at E-bay. But how reliable is it? Is it save to get the expensive equipments just by looking at the pictures and reviews given by the owner? What must i lookout for while conducting such transactions? Does anyone here had any GOOD or BAD experiences to share? Thanks...

-- alfred (cnka@pacific.net.sg), March 13, 2002

Answers

I've bought (and sold) a bunch of photo gear on eBay. In my experience, dealing with buyers or sellers with a good feedback record (10+ positives) is your best safeguard. For the most part, I think the group is pretty honest. The bigest issue you need to watch for is sellers that don't fully explain their gear or have really poor photos, or worse, no photos of the equipment. When you run into one of these ask questions to determine the exact condition of the gear. I was burned (not badly) once or twice early on by sellers whose gear was not in the condition stated. Also, with high-end gear, most of the reputable sellers will give you a basic return policy -- and if they won't, I'd steer clear of their item.

:-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), March 14, 2002.

Doolittle's Rule: based on experience with Ebay...NEVER BUY A USED CAMERA SIGHT-UNSEEN

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), March 14, 2002.

i have a bought a number of items off ebay, and haven't had any problems. if you have the option of paying with a credit card - possibly through paypal or bidpay (i think it is called ebay payments now) you will most likely have the security that if you don't get the product you won't have to pay. I once bought something that wasn't in the same condition as described and the person was freindly and corrected the problem (i.e. gave me some money back... he would have also taken it back had i wanted). The most important thing is to make sure you ask ALL your questions before winning an auction, then you at least have a case with ebay's conflict resolution department.

-- Matthew Geddert (geddert@yahoo.com), March 14, 2002.

Alfred: In have bought a few camera related items and all has been well.

I will not, however buy something from someone who is not familiar with the equipment and says something like: I am not a photographer so I don't know much about it".

Unless it is very cheap and you can afford to write it off, "run away".

ALl the above about +ve feedback applies.

Cheers

-- RICHRRD ILOMAKI (richard.ilomaki@hotmail.com), March 14, 2002.

Alfred:

Ditto what the others say on feedback. I got burned once, but I look at feed back. One time, the merchandise was not as described, but the person took it back instead of negative feedback. Just as important is NEUTRAL feedback. This says almost as much, but in different words. Be prepared to throw the money away, as that is what will happen in a bad deal. I have gotten some good buys too.

Good luck.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logical1@catholic.org), March 14, 2002.

on thing which really annoyes me is that especially on ebay's us-site more and more professional dealers try to sell their stuff at more or less regular retail prices. the problem with that is, that if you buy from abroad, you have to add duty, which can make the purchase really expensive.

personally i never had a bad experience or fraud with ebay.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), March 14, 2002.

Ebay reliability - their servers go down now and then. 8-). Ok about the possibility of getting ripped off by sellers, it's been my personal experience that dealers with thousands of items to move each week are less careful about inspecting or describing the condition of their ware. I've had very positive transactions from personal sellers with low feedback; even the new guys with zero because they were there to unload stuff they've personally used, not gear some dead dude's widow gave away. Most sellers respond to polite inquiries and may tell you more than what's in the item description. I'd suggest winning auctions on some inexpensive stuff to get a feel of how the process works before going after that "Museum collection of 35 Leicas". Lastly, (dont take this personally), anyone who is jittery about being ripped off should buy from a local dealer they can see face to face instead of using Ebay.

-- Fred Sun (redsky3@yahoo.com), March 14, 2002.

Alfred: Everyone so far has offered good advice. The best is offered by ebay themselves: Caveat emptor! (Buyer beware). The lion's share of my eBay experiences have been positive. I once bought a beautiful IIIf Red Dial for $282.00, but on receiving the camera, the shutter was dragging at all speeds and the rangefinder was a mess. Externally, the camera was mint! I opted to have it repaired, $180.00 and have a sweet IIIf. I could have returned it, but thought it was worth saving. The seller was not a Leica person and meant no ill will, but there are risks involved. I recently bought a beautiful M2 on eBay, but on receipt found the rangefinder out of adjustment. I could have returned it, but sent it to Don Goldberg instead. There are a lot of things to consider and there are personal choices to be made when dealing on eBay. One way or another, you get what you pay for!

-- Ben Hughes (ben@hughesbros.com), March 14, 2002.

I have bought and sold on Ebay for almost 2 yrs now and have not had any problems when it comes to camera equipment. I usually start by thinking the camera or lens described will have some kind of problem even if the description shows the equipment functions properly. I once bought a IIIf RD with a 50/3.5 Red Scale Elmar and case for $299. The dealer was a antique shop and stated they did not know anything about this camera. The camera and lens arrived, and to my amazement, the camera was mint- and the lens was ex+ with a slight fog. After cleaning the lens, I now have a nice IIIf w/50 3.5 kit worth about $600 or more.

Check the feedbacks, it does help. Avoid any seller or buyer with more than 3 negatives. Some may not want to attempt to purchase items for overseas, but some of my best deals were from Hong Kong and Europe.

Just remember, some of this camera gear most likely has been laying around for 30+ years, so a little CLA will be needed.

-- chris a williams (LeicaChris@worldnet.att.net), March 14, 2002.

Al,

I've bought extensively on ebay and the results are generally favorable. But, one has to do their homework because there are many knowedgable bidders. Real good deals are few and far between. I don't agree to avoid sellers who "don't know about..." cameras. The items are frequently inherited and if you know a particular item in a "kit" is worth buying, buy the lot, then sell the rest that you don't need. I've got a couple of 8-element 35 'crons that way. But, have yet to sell the other equip. (see below). Condition IS the most misrepresented aspect of ebay; your mint may not qualify as mint to me. Leica users are a picky bunch I'd propose. Bodies are easier to buy because optics are not involved and flaws are easier to see and describe even by luddites. "Ask the seller" usually gets short responses with no greeting or salutations; just like this community. We are getting more-and-more rushed and insensitive...NO TIME to be polite...or even proof read/spell check.

I've never sold on ebay; I'm a terrible seller. I don't have digital photo capabilities. I don't know why photos of the equip. make buyers more inclined to bid; you can't see much unless, like Luigi (Roma), one posts several clear macro shots and describe meticulously, a photo, I guess, just goes further to "prove" one has the item to sell.

Summing, ebay IS NOT for amateurs. Also, don't buy from overseas.

Regards

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 14, 2002.

Chris, that is good advice. I am in Hong Kong and have horrible experiences with sellers from the US.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), March 14, 2002.

Rai,

You have A LOT of Leica in your back yard. There's a place on the main road (name?) in Kowloon that had a lot of grey, green and black paint bodies in collector condition. I was too afraid to ask for a price, though.

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 14, 2002.

Chris, I was only kidding. I know the place with the painted Leicas but the US is still the place for good users. I have given up on ebay and now prefer to just save up and buy new locally. Ebay is good for selling but buy from reputable dealers with unconditional money back guarantee.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), March 14, 2002.

I've sold a lot of items on e-bay and also bought a few. I agree that the feedback rating is key to deciding whether to bid. I've maintained a 100% positive rating because I describe the items critically, point out any possible incompatibilities that an inexpert buyer might not be aware of, and I pack the items meticulously and ship them right away. So when I buy off e-Bay I look for the same qualities in a seller...by reading their feedback profile. The only bad experiences I've had as a seller were several winners who backed out, but even then I've had them offer to pay the e-Bay fees to avoid me soiling their feedback. So feedback is very key.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), March 14, 2002.

Jay,

It is still hit-and-miss. Need I tell/remind you of the fella who had 100's of positive feedback then collected $200000 on fake figurine auctions and cannot be found?

Feedback comments are even more brief than some of these posts, since ebay only allows 80 (?) characters; much like: A+++++ would deal again, or Great Seller....tells you nothing. I guess I've been lucky.

Sometimes a seller may be in ones own area...one can look at the item. Been there/done that.

-- chris chen (chrischen@msn.com), March 14, 2002.

Hit or miss is a good description of ebay, and the main thing is to not buy expensive photo items from "casual sellers". What I mean by that is someone without a long track record of selling photo equipment on ebay.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), March 14, 2002.

The thing about eBay (and I agree with many of the cautionary comments) is that you find rare and unusual Leica that would be difficult to find anywhere else. The problem is that many of the items are not described or graded properly. Mint on eBay RARELY means mint, there are always problems and sometimes significant. Also, many of the sellers are uninformed about Leica and some who know better, fail to mention problems. The best bet is with sellers with good records of positive feedback who are experts in Leica and not "casual" sellers.

Many reputable dealers also occasionally sell on eBay (I have seen items offered by Don Chatterton, Stan Tamarkin, and others). I would say that if you are careful, you can get nice items at less than full retail price on eBay. But you can also get probable items, for which eBay will NOT take responsibility.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 14, 2002.

all of the above is good advice. personally i only buy user equipment through ebay, because that is where i feel the best deals are and i only buy from people who sell cameras because they have a better feel for the condition. there is obviously more risk on ebay, and you should nerver bid more than you are willing to risk. i know others who would prefer to pay extra and buy through a reputable used leica shop. many times experienced leica shoppers can smell a rat like the time i was high bidder at $1 for a m2-r with a 50mm.

-- greg mason (gmason1661@aol.com), March 14, 2002.

I have not had any problems selling Leica gear on Ebay. I've never sold anything mint, so I always list the item as a USER camera or lens, so the collector's will know up front it's not a mint item. I would say 50% of my Ebay feedback(up to 100 now) is from selling Leica equipment. Of course, Hong Kong and Japan are the best buyers.

-- chris a williams (LeicaChris@worldnet.att.net), March 14, 2002.

I have had more success in buying from e-bay than from some so-called reputable dealers. I bought a camera that was in described as ex+++++++++++ condition from Don Chatterton and immediately noticed two problems with it, one with the shutter and another with the rangefinder. Although the camera worked, I think it was misrepresented. Don Chatterton did not answer my repeated e mails on this subject. I eventually had the camera repaired at a cost of $550. On the other hand I bought a couple of excellent lenses from e- bay, which were if anything in better condition than described. In general, as some one else suggested, I think that it is not a good idea to buy older cameras on e bay or by mail unless it is a real bargain and you are willing to take a risk. Most of the descriptions on ebay relating to cameras are mostly to do with cosmetics. They do not mention dirt in the rangefinder mechanism, decementation, brightness of the framelines accuracy of focus, condition of the shutter etc. Descriptions from mail order dealers are also often misleading.

-- enrique munoz (dem331@yahoo.com), March 15, 2002.