My reference is HOVE Pocket Book, 6th edition. According to this the 90 Elmar was built under the code of 11830, for both the standard Elmar bayonet from 1954 to 1963 and the three element from 1964 to 1968. Hove further states the collapsible manufactured from 1954 to 1968 used the same optical formula as 11830.

Was the collapsible produced with ONE optical formula from start to finish, or did it change to the three element design in 1964 when the later lens was produced?

The question is one of curiosity only.

Thank-you for your time and research.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logical1@catholic.org), March 18, 2002

Answers

Mark. The 90/4.0 collapsible Elmar had the same optical formula as the four element [rigid] 90/4.0 Elmar ELANG-M. The three element 90/4.0 lens (1964-68) is a different optical formula. There were NO three element collapsible lenses. All three element lenses have a rigid non-rotating (parallel) mount. You have the code numbers wrong. The correct numbers are as follows: 1) four element rigid lens #11130 (aka. ELANG-M). 2) four element collapsible lens #11131 (aka. ILNOO). 3) three element rigid (non-rotating) lens #11830 (no letter code).

The three element lens and rigid 4 element lens (but Not the collapsible 4-element lens) were also made in screw mount. All three element lenses (especially the SM version) are relatively rare and expensive. It is not clear why the redesigned the 90/4 Elmar at a time when the 90/4 Elmar had been largely superseded by an improved and faster lens, the 90/2.8 Elmarit, which was introduced in 1959.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 18, 2002.

Might I ask how I can determine the lens's type by checking the serial number ?

Thanks in advance, Joe

-- Joe Liu (liujoe8@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Joe, you can look it up by serial number to get its date of manufacture, at least approximately, in the back of the Hove guide. Then you can cross-reference the date to the lens type in the main body of the guide. This works some of the time. Volume II of Lager (Morgan & Morgan) can also be helpful. Lager shows pictures of the various examples, and gives the serial numbe of the example shown, which can be of some help.

In this case, Lager says "In late 1963 the 90mm Elmar f/4 with three elements replaced the earlier design . . . catalog number 11730 ... last availablein 1964." The lens in the picture of the 11730 is #l920845. Going now to the Hove guide, Mark's lens should have a number between 1 967 101 and 2 015 700.

The lens in question actually seems to fall through the cracks in the Hove guide. Hove gives both the 1949-1963 version and the 1964-1968 version as 11830, for the bayonet version. But according to Lager, the three-element, made from 1963-64, is a 11730. From its picture, it appears to be non-rotating, with a fatter barrel and scalloped focusing ring.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), March 18, 2002.

Just noticed the serial number discrepancy. Well, like I said, it works some of the time.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), March 18, 2002.

The three lenses in question (rigid 4-element, collapsible 4-element, and 3-element parallel focussing mount) are very easy to tell apart, since they have completely different appearances (and only the collapsible lens is collabpsible (:-)). Any standard reference on Leica lenses will show pictures of each lens allowing easy identification.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 18, 2002.

Hello Mark.I believe the 3 element Elmar,a short lived design which I would LOVE to test and compare to current 90's,was a challenge to those wizards at Wetzlar to make a fine performer with new type glass and as few elements as possible. This was despite the coexisting,faster Elmarit 90mm.Regards.

-- Sheridan Zantis (albada60@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.