Do many Leica M shooters use a Billingham Bag? Are they more convenient and comfortable than Domke Bags? Thanks, Jack

-- Jack Belen (jbelen@aol.com), March 19, 2002

Answers

More padding? Yes. More elegent looking? Yes. More expensive? Yes. More convenient than a Domke? No - at least most on this site have thought not in the past.

I think it was Jay not too long ago who observed the Billingham is good for transport, because it protects the equipment well, even from weather. But in protecting the equipment it becomes a tough bag to work out of.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), March 19, 2002.

I use both the Billingham Alice and Hadley. They are brilliant bags for a M camera system. Easy to get in and out of and, most important, they keep your gear dry even if the flap is loose. Very few camera bags will keep the contents dry during a down pour while you are using them. The Hadley and the Alice are two that do.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@shaw.ca), March 19, 2002.

My experience is only with Domke bags with my recent purchases of the F-5XB and F-803 Satchel. Great bags, and fairly easy to work with but the metal clasp on the F-803 isn't always the easiest to open. Protection from rain etc is a no go. Buy a Lowepro S&F 100 for that.

As for Billingham, they are not sold in Australia and are way out of my financial reach to import. Nice looking, but I am not too sure about the front clasps on those. they look a little too easy to open form pictures. i'm probably wrong. I also hear (from Robert Appleby for example) that they are great against protection form the elements. Sounds like a pretty decent all round bag. Whereas the Domke isn't, and neither is the Lowepro with it's "hey I'm a camera bag" look.

If you can afford it, try one. And if you can easily afford it, send one my way too **grin** :)

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 20, 2002.

The Billingham Hadley bags are great for M shooters, but I have just changed to the Domke F 803 satchel and feel that it is much more comfortable to use. It isn't as nicely made, or as padded, but being taller rather than fatter, it seems to balance better on your body. An M body/lens and three other lenses are easy to get in with perhaps an SF20 as well.

-- Steve Barnett (barnet@globalnet.co.uk), March 20, 2002.

I cannot speak for Domke Bags - I know they have a faithful following here. I have always used Billinghams's - I believe they are the best quality bag available bar none. Obviously personal taste and style comes into it, but the old syle material, brass fastners and quintessentially English "old school" design creates a beautiful product.

Technically they are brilliant, well padded, intelligent compartments and flaps and with a huge capacity - often you can pack far more into the smaller bags than you might think. My smaller "F4.5" (old model) doubles as a good travel bag that looks nothing like a camera bag.

They are designed to wear in, conforming to the shape of the user and attaining a lovely "used" look!

Considering they will last at least one lifetime and can be repaired- updated by Billingham they are excellent value for money. Plastic, nylon and cardboard might suit an average camera - if you have a Leica - give it the best!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), March 20, 2002.

The J-803, made of ballistic nylon, offer a better protection than the canvas F-803.

The best of both world is to fit it with the Billingham classic insert.

-- Lucien (Lucien_vd@yahoo.fr), March 20, 2002.

Sorry, the Billingham "Hadley original" insert

-- Lucien (Lucien_vd@yahoo.fr), March 20, 2002.

I prefer the older inserts made by Billingham (I think they contain some form of fabric padding instead of foam). This results in a softer bag that moulds around the body better, plus they are more confortable, but does not protect your gear as well

-- Karl Yik (karl.yik@dk.com), March 20, 2002.

I would 2nd Lucien's recommendation re: the Billingham Hadley inserts. Although obviously designed to fit inside the Billinghams, they work great w/all sorts of briefcases, travel bags, etc. If you do decide to get a Billingham bag, it's much, much cheaper to order them direct from a dealer in the UK (e.g., Robert White) than it is to purchase them here in the U.S.

-- Chris Chen (Washington, DC) (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), March 20, 2002.

I have the 225 Billingham, nice! A bit bulky on the outside for what it holds inside- not much more the 1 body with a lens attached, and a couple extra lenses (and maybe another body). Of course the front pockets will allow more accessories. To get to your contents it's a bit fiddly- dual straps and a zipper, but you can always leave the straps loose, and the zippered cover over the top can be tucked into the sides of the entry. Definitely weather/dust resistant. Well padded and made, and designed for probably less action shooting, but heck leave it around your neck for that!

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), March 20, 2002.

I have a Billingham 335, a Domke F3 and Domke 803 Satchel. I don't use the Bilingham, as I find the Domkes better designed and more convenient. For example, the Domke Satchel has a "pocket" on the back, ie outside, into which you can stick papers, maps or a small book -- no such thing on the Hadley. For two bodies and a bunch of lenses I find the Domke F3 much more convenient than the equivalent-sized Billingham. And also, the Bilingham's look to expensive, crying ou, "steal me."

-- Mitch Alland (malland@mac.com), March 20, 2002.

Another vote for Billingham. I use the 335 for big kits of Nikon SLR gear, but based on my experience with it, I recommend the brand heartily. Extremely well-designed, well-made, and (contrary to some opinions) I think it is easy to work with and work out of.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), March 20, 2002.

F-803/J-803. I am looking to replace my worn out F-803. The J-803 is listed as slightly larger (13.5.X4.5X10"D) compared to the 803 at (13X4X9"D). Has anybody noticed an appreciable difference? I would like a bag slightly larger but the F-804 is too large for me. Where is a good dealer (USA) to mail order Billingham bags/inserts?

-- Richard Chatcuff (richard.chatcuff@mcfm.ucsfmedctr.org), March 20, 2002.

I've got a Billingham Hadley, but the Pro version, which does have a pocket on the back (and a handle on top, and takes AVEA pockets) and I love it. I find it more comfortable to carry than the Fogg Balalaika (previously known as the Celia: very similar to the Billingham Alice; now I wonder what cameras they're meant for?) which I've also got, even though it's much bigger.

At the moment I've only carrying one camera, 35 and 50 'crons, an SF20, filter, caps, and half a dozen rolls of film, and there's still plenty of room left. Most of this, if not all, would actually go in the Celia: I guess I'll just have to get a couple more lenses !

Even then, there'll be enough space in the pockets on the front, and one or two AVEA pockets if necessary, to allow me to carry other stuff like glasses, mobile, wallet, pocket sundial, etc. Oh yes, and lots more film!

I also can (and do) carry a 10" x 8" grey card between the padded insert and the back of the bag.

Nigel

-- Nigel Bowley (nigel.bowley@btinternet.com), March 20, 2002.

A note: If you're in the USA (and perhaps other nations as well) you can save a ton of money on a new Billingham by ordering it from www.robertwhite.co.uk I ordered my 335 from them, and with shipping it came to $183 (vs.$299 + shipping from B&H here in the U.S.). It arrived within ten days. Robert White's site also has great prices on some other stuff as well, such as new Konica RF and CV gear.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), March 20, 2002.

I have the Billingham Hadley (small). A couple of issues - I hated the strap so I had a handbag-repair guy cut it off and stitch on instead a couple of brass rings, to which I can now connect any strap I like (currently a heavy-duty Portrabrace HB-40).

The second thing is that I find the Hadley bag with insert too cramped to comfortably hold my M6+50mm+lenshood. So to give the camera more internal room I took the insert out and instead covering the canvas interior with self-adhesive felt.

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), March 20, 2002.

I've been thinking about buying the Hadley Pro. I'd like to use it with an M3/MR-4, M6, old swing-out polarizer, Metz CS34-2, 35 Pre- ASPH Summicron, 50 Summicron and current 90 Elmarit-M.

Will it all fit and what accessories should I get with the bag?

TIA, Bud Cook

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), March 20, 2002.

I have the Billingham Hadley (medium), 335, 206, Packington and 550. I also have Domke F2E, F6, F4AF, F1, 3 F3X's, 803, 806 and F5XB. Of all those bags the only ones currently in use are the 806 and F5XB. The 806 I use to carry my laptop (in a Lowe Alpine laptop sleeve), and the F5XB is my main Leica M bag. All the rest are packed away because in order to attach an Op-Tech SOS strap I would need to cut the OEM straps off, and in the case of the Billinghams, have "D" rings sewn in as well. I can almost guarantee that if any of you tries an S.O.S. strap on their bag, you will *never* use a standard strap again no matter how thick or large a shoulder pad it has.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), March 20, 2002.

Bud, I have the Hadley Pro and like it very much. It will easily hold all the gear you mention. Mine is black with nickel hardware. It looks more like an ordinary satchel style briefcase than a camera bag. The best thing about it is the Velcro compatible interior. Unless you already have some dividers from another camera bag, you may want to order one or two extra dividers. I do have to agree with Jay regarding the shoulder strap. Unfortunately, it is not removable. I may yet take it to a shoe repair shop and have that taken care of. if you're in the USA, try Robert White for the best price. A month or so ago I paid $125 USD.

-- Bob (robljones@sprintpcs.com), March 20, 2002.

I like the Pro hadley and I like their straps. I personally do not care for the Optech type of strap as they have that awful non-slip pad which I hate and they look a little tacky in my opinion. There again most camera bags look tacky too. I will concede that the Pro Hadley is not the fastest bag to work out of but this is nothing to do with it being a Billingham as such, it is due to the deep but thin shape. This shape is also what I like about it too.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), March 20, 2002.

Thanks Bob,

How are bags shipped from England and how is Import Duty handled?

Bud

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), March 20, 2002.

Bud--

The bag I ordered from Robert White came with no duty and arrived rather promptly. I suggest you email their store if further details are needed.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), March 20, 2002.

Rather redundant, I know, but here's another recommendation for the Hadley. I could be considered biased as I grew up just down the road from Billingham (I'm an ex-pat Brummie), but I've never found any camera bags which match the quality and durability of this company's products. I first bought the 550, which is almost bomb-proof (not that I would declare that at an airport, mind you). Great for taking all my gear (Leica, Bronica & Canon) from location to location, but way too heavy for street shooting. So I picked up the original (medium) Hadley last year. Perfect for 2 M bodies, 3 lenses, the SF20 and a handheld light meter, plus a dozen rolls of film.

-- Stuart Dorman (stuart.dorman@us.pwcglobal.com), March 21, 2002.

But I would recommend getting the optional shoulder pad. I took mine off the Billingham 550 & put it on the Hadley. Now the Hadley's absolutely perfect. As for speed of access, I like the narrow, deep design of the Hadley. Stable and secure enough that I don't always need to keep the buckles done up, but easy enough for me to retrieve a camera in a couple of seconds. On the other hand, the 550's zips scratch the hell out of my hands if I ever try to take a camera out quickly. The pain stops me from scratching the hell out of my cameras, I suppose. I'll let you decide if that's a selling point...

-- Stuart Dorman (stuart.dorman@us.pwcglobal.com), March 21, 2002.

I like my Hadley Pro (M6+Minilux+35, 50, 90+film). Perfect for my small outfit.

-- Anam Alpenia (aalpenia@dasar.com), March 21, 2002.

Bud, There was no import duty. Don't remember who the shipper was but, it did not take long. I emailed Robert White a couple of questions about the Hadley Pro and received very prompt replies, given the five hour time difference. I am sold on the Hadley Pro and Robert White.

-- Bob (robljones@sprintpcs.com), March 21, 2002.

I have four Domke bags. I have a hard time imagining that other bags are more durable or better built - some of mine have had very hard use including being dragged across the jungle floor. Given that I bought each of them for under $100, I can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars on any bag.

I find them great to work out of. While I am traveling (i.e., on the bus, plane or train), I usually keep everything in a backpack.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), March 21, 2002.

Bob and Douglas, Thanks.

I'm interested in any recommendations people might have about what accessories would be useful with the Hadley Pro. Pad for the shoulder strap? Add-on pockets? Different inserts?

I like the idea that the insert can be removed and the bag used for something else. I also would like the ability to convert the bag from an M bag to a Leicaflex bag if that were possible by changing the inserts.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), March 21, 2002.

Bud

I got a shoulder pad (you need the SP15) and I would recommend this.

I also got a couple of the pockets: the AVEA 3 and AVEA 5. I haven't actually used them yet. Whether these are a good idea for you would depend on whether you anticipate ever filling the bag and needing more capacity. Or would you just use a bigger bag? I got mine straight away because with another bag (not Billingham) which had add on pockets I didn't, and by the time I decided I wanted them I found that the manufacturer no longer made them. The Billingham AVEA pockets can also be used on their own, clipped on your belt.

If you do decide you're interested in the pockets you may wonder what the difference is between the AVEA 5 and AVEA 6. They are the same dimensions and look the same in the pictures. The answer is that the AVEA 6 is identical to the AVEA 5 apart from the fact that it is made from a different material. It is intended for use with the 106, 206, and 306 bags, not the Hadley Pro.

Hope this helps.

Nigel

-- Nigel Bowley (nigel.bowley@btinternet.com), March 23, 2002.