"My friend and I went to the fair. THE WORLD FAIR OF RELIGIONS. Not a trade fair. But the competition was as fierce, the propaganda loud.

At the Jewish stall we were given handouts that said that God was all-compasionate and the Jews were his Chosen People. The Jews. No other people were as chosen as they.

At the Moslem stall we learned that God was all-merciful and Mohammed is his only Prophet. Salvation comes form listening to God's Prophet.

At the Christian stall we discovered that God is love and there is no salvation outside the Church. Join the Church or risk eternal damnation.

On the way out I asked my friend, "What do you think of God?" He replied, "He is bigoted, fanatical, and cruel."

Back home, I said to God, "How do you put up with this sort of thing, Lord? Don't you see they have been giving you a bad name for centuries?"

God said, "It wasn't I we organized the fair. In fact, I'd be too ashamed to visit it.""

-- John McDowell (jmcdowell43@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002

Answers

Wow, this guy is real profound. Probably some fratty bagger who just took Religion 101 at the local community college.

-- Steve Jackson (SteveJ100@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.

A Jesuit Priest.. maybe.

-- John McDowell (jmcdowell43@hotmail.com), March 23, 2002.

John,

You must have a PhD in Plagiarism Studies.

The author from whom you plagiarized this story is Anthony DeMello, SJ.

Anthony deMello, a Jesuit priest from India, died in 1987. His many books, tapes and retreats combined traditional Christian concepts with insights from Eastern religions.

This is your first post of an actual nominal Catholic, as far as I can tell. I appreciate that you are learning what this forum is all about. This man, while validly searching for Truth in all expressions of religion, invalidly opines that Jesus would hold a view that contradicts His own position. deMello imagines Jesus saying:

"He [God] is bigoted, fanatical, and cruel."

Bigoted

God is not bigoted against homosexuals, just as society is not bigoted against pedophiles. A acting on a "natural" homosexual tendency is immoral, just as acting on tendencies to pedophilia is rightly condemned by society. Is society "closed-minded" by shunning pedophilia as an evil and dis-ordered tendency?

Fanatical

Jesus' recorded life shows that in Matthew:

Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

This is terribly inconsistent with this man's hypothetical Jesus, and underlines the fact that Jesus (and God) isn't the wishy-washy Omnipotent Diety that you seem to be hoping for.

Cruel

Is it a spiritual awakening to believe that all human drives are morally acceptable?

Does the act of rearranging one's life to conform to an outside ideal constitute an offense against the individual's freedom to be himself through unquestioned responses to these natural urges?

Does true freedom exist by succumbing to all natural desires, or does true freedom exist only when the individual frees himself from the whims of his natural selfish urges? Is the Christian ideal of rejection of selfish urges also a rejection of personal freedom?

Thank you for the post. I look forward to your thoughts on this Jesuit's words.

AMDG,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 24, 2002.

Josh McDowell is a popular Protestant apologist.

http://www.joshmcdowell.com

-- cathy in slovenia (crossways@addall.com), March 24, 2002.

Cathy wrote:

Josh McDowell is a popular Protestant apologist.

Cathy, you are mixing the two names (John and Josh). I believe that Josh McDowell would be arguing against these quotes that John McDowell is posting.

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 24, 2002.

Oops. (rub eyes and refocus) I sure thought he signed Josh... Guess I should get back to my studies.

sorry, John (and sorry, Josh!)

-- cathy in slovenia (crossways@addall.com), March 24, 2002.

In 1998, the Vatican warned Catholics concerning Mr. De Mello's teachings --

http://www.hvk.org/Publications/cihp/ap1.html

-- Steve Jackson (SteveJ100@hotmail.com), March 24, 2002.

"He [God] is bigoted, fanatical, and cruel." Mateo ******************

Mateo my friend...All imaging of God, if he word is going to mean anything besides "this is what Mother taught me," is supposed to refer to that which transcends all knowledge, all naming, all forming; and, consequently, the word has to point past itself. In our tradition, the idea of God is so strongly personified as a person that you get stuck with that problem whenever you think of God. God is not an illusion, but a symbol pointing beyond itself to the realization of the mystery of at-one-ment. Sometimes we get lost in our symbols. God is not bigoted, fanatical, and cruel, but often our imagine, our concept is. Many blessings to you. John

-- John McDowell (jmcdowell43@hotmail.com), March 24, 2002.

Mr. McDowell,

I suggest some fine reading on your pet subject. By G.K. Chesterton; The Everlasting Man''. If you disagree with his point of views, come back and we'll discuss your objections. Right now you have nothing of interest to show us. But thank you, anyhow. Just don't go away mad.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 24, 2002.

John wrote:

Mateo my friend...All imaging of God [...] is supposed to refer to that which transcends all knowledge, all naming, all forming; and, consequently, the word has to point past itself.

I think that God's creation (the Earth, the universe, all known life), carry in them deep truths which serve as an imperfect reflection of God. For example, Catholics speak of a "Natural Law" that is written in each of our hearts, helping us see right from wrong even without a dependence of our belief in God.

Biologists have discovered and recorded the human genome, and describe it as a language written in our cells' DNA--our very physical essence, so to speak. Now, I'm not holding my breath that they will decode in our genes the exact words of Matthew 25:35: "for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me". I do look forward to what scientists do find, as they begin to understand what our genes' patterns mean, and start discovering a language in the 3 billion or so random "letters" that they have recorded.

The discovery of the genome reminds me of an archiologist who finds and attempts to understand an ancient civilization's writings among ruins. The author of the genetic codes is God...hmmm I guess some non-Christians believe that it's just proof that aliens designed and built us! :-)

I am not formally educated in philosophy, but I think that philosophers look extensively at the relationship between our senses' view of reality, reality itself, and the Presence of God.

John wrote:

, if the word [God] is going to mean anything besides "this is what Mother taught me,"

I believe that God has revealed Himself in the Person of Jesus. Catholics often can be attacked for their admission that we humans are unable to fully understanding the Grandness of God. My faith is based on my own desire to understand Truth, along with a conviction that objective Truth exists. My faith is not something I passively received, though I think you are speaking in general here.

John wrote:

In our tradition, the idea of God is so strongly personified as a person that you get stuck with that problem whenever you think of God. God is not an illusion, but a symbol pointing beyond itself to the realization of the mystery of at-one-ment. Sometimes we get lost in our symbols.

Used almost exclusively by Anthony de Mello, SJ in his book "The Song of the Bird," parables use symbols to illustrate a moral or religious lesson (paraphasing the definition of parable on dictionary.com). In this forum, you have relied primarily on parables to support your beliefs. Parables step away from reality to teach a lesson using symbolism. It's interesting that you proclaim the danger that "Sometimes we get lost in our symbols," while relying on them heavily for your own understanding of God. Please think about this point. I make it, not out of pride, but because I have repeatedly found myself focusing on condemnation of an incorrect behavior in others that I myself exhibit (possibly in a variant form). This situation is found in the Bible:

Matthew 7:3 - Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

God is not bigoted, fanatical, and cruel, but often our imagine, our concept is. Many blessings to you. John

I described why Fr. de Mello's hypothetical Jesus does not reflect the Bible's or Christianity's view of Jesus. Outside of the context of Fr. de Mello, I would offer that "God is not bigoted, fanatical, and cruel," but he may appear this way to those who reject His unchanging Truth.

I can refuse drinking water; but I will dehydrate and suffer. I must blame my suffering my actions, not the unchanging truth that drinking water keeps me from dehydration.

Peace,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 25, 2002.