Hello Folks: Has anyone out there had experience with Ilford Pan F film? I am interested in finding a black and white film with super fine grain for architectural photography. I currently use a Leica M6 Classic and 35mm Summaron f 3.5 lens. I also have a 50mm Summicron but now use my Summaron most of the time since it covers a wider angle of view.Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), March 24, 2002

Answers

Pan F is an excellent film that has been around for many years, and I've used quite a bit of it. However, I doubt that the film is any sharper or the grain any finer than Ilford Delta 100, Fuji Acros, or Kodak T-Max 100, all of which are faster.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), March 24, 2002.

Dave: Thanks for the information. One thing I did fail to ask, what is the ASA of Pan F? Thanks again.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), March 24, 2002.

The ISO speed of PanF+ is 50. With normal exposure and development, PanF has a LOT of contrast. If you're shooting in contrasty situations, you'll probably need to rate it about 20 and pull development if you want to maintain shadow detail.

The grain is quite fine, but Delta 100 is probably a little sharper.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), March 24, 2002.

Irwin Puts recently reported on extensive testing of B&W film and developer combinations in his newsletters. His overwhelming favorite for fine grain, sharpness and contrast was T-Max 100 rated at 80. I don't do B&W any more but it sounded like a winner to me. Good luck.

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), March 24, 2002.

Here are a couple of folders full of Pan F pictures:

Wedding< /a>

Vermont< /a>

Handled right, Pan F has a much longer highlight scale than the T- grain/Delta grain 100 films, although they are probably sharper. It gives a tonal range that looks like larger formats (No, I KNOW it's not as sharp as 4x5 - be quiet out there!)

See for example, the bridesmaids' dresses and the range of grays in background trees in the wedding folder, or the water details in one of the Vermont shots.

For my digital darkroom I'm rating it at 64-80 and developing in Ilford's DDX for the normal time (8 min at 68 degrees) or 10% less for sunlit shots. Your meter may vary. Also depends on the lens - a modern Elmarit-M on Pan F in sunlight is like Kodalith - A Summaron might be perfect.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 24, 2002.

Nnhhhh! Tony, can you fix my HTMLiabilities in the previous response!?? Thanks!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 24, 2002.

I have been shooting Pan F Plus for a bit lately. It's a good, fine grain emulsion. Not as fine grained as the late and lamented APX 25 but close. I like the grayscale rendition it creates and it seems very pliable. I have not had such problems with high contrast that others report, processed in XTOL 1:1.

But if you really want super fine grain, go Technical Pan and TD3. Makes TMax 100 look like it's made of boulders.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), March 24, 2002.

t-grain (and comparable delta) films have fine grain, yes, but are incredibly boring tonally. also, they seem to present lower subjective sharpness. this, i believe, is due to the fact that (a) fine grain films often have poor edge acutance properties, and (b) the fact that all the grains are about the same size (unlike conventional films) does something weird to the gray palette. i love pan f, developed in either ddx or kodak tmax (i also love tmax developer with tri-x 400/320 even though it's not recommended by kodak, partly due to short dev times [a problem ameliorated some for me by the fact that i dilute heavily AND use a jobo rotary system]). pan f has very very fine grain, better than average edge acutance, and a beautifl long grey scale. now, having said all that, i ONLY use pan f in 120 size. i only use 35mm in situations where i am just trying to capture an image that can't easily be nabbed in MF or LF (where i use only tri-x in tmax dev), especially in low lite situations. however, regardless of shooting conditions, 35mm requires so much mag to get to a decent image size (even 5x7), that i find that (a) i need every once of sharpness (i.e. the highest poss shutter speed), and (b) once the mag gets sufficiently high (as it does even by 5x7 or 8x10) in 35mm, you lose most of the tonal beauty that is the hallmark of mf (to some extent) and lf. anyway, i love pan f, and (because i'm doing my taxes this weekend), happen to know that i shot more than 300 rolls of the stuff in 2001.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), March 24, 2002.

andy -- shot wih window in the background -- was that normal exposure and development or (as it appears) some degree of overex/underde (i.e. n- dev). nice shots.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), March 24, 2002.

Pan F rated at ISO 32 and developed in Ilford Perceptol is very fine-grained indeed.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), March 25, 2002.

I LOVE Pan F+ developed in Rodinal. It seems very complimentary to the qualities of my Leica M6TTL/50mm Summilux. I'm not very enthusiastic about the tonal distribution nor the perceived sharpness of T Max. Pan F+ in Rodinal gives me beautiful 11X14s from 35mm negatives - wonderful sharp edges, very tight grain and tones which I prefer to T Max. I do not find Pan F+ to be overly contrasty if one agitates gently. I've been sticking to the Rodinal dilution, time and temp. as recommended inside the Pan F+ film box: EI 50, 1+25, 68 degrees for 6 minutes. I've been so pleased that I haven't yet experimented with other dilutions. (I generally believe the film manufacturer's recommendations to be a good starting point.)

-- Ollie Steiner (violindevil@yahoo.com), March 25, 2002.

According to tests I did a couple of years ago, Pan F+ gives a maximum black at E.I. 50 with good contrast when developed in T-Max 1:9 for 6 minutes at 75 degrees. I used the 1:9 dilution because times were too short at the normal 1:4 dilution. Normal development in X-Tol 1:2 (10 minutes at 68 degrees) yielded an E.I. of 40.

All film processed in a Unicolor film drum with motor base.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), March 25, 2002.

If you're considering Pan F or lament the passing of APX 25, you owe it to yourself to check out Efke KB25. It is an "old technology" film and, developed in Rodinal, delivers outstanding tonality.

Unfortunately, there is no U.S. distributor but it is easily available from http://www.fotoimpex.de

-- Rolfe Tessem (rolfe@ldp.com), March 25, 2002.

Roger: you mean the little girl at the ferry window? Exposed at EI 64 metering for a circle that included the girl and some of the window. Developed Ilford normal minus 10%.

It was a foggy day so there was no detail beyond the ferry railings. I burned in the edges of the picture - the black areas left and right actually show almost as much shadow detail as around the girl, in the negative.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 25, 2002.