Looking in the archives I found recipes for mixing Ivermectin to give orally to dogs, and I have a few questions. I have ordered injectable Ivermectin for the goats we are getting in a couple weeks - is this the same as the cattle type and OK to use for dogs? (1 Lab, 1 Mastiff, no Collies) Why would you mix it with propylene glycol [which seems to be 1)very expensive - 1 source I found was $35 for 500ml, other for a 480lb barrel - didn't bother checking price, and 2)a chemical used in antifreeze??] rather than sterile water or some other common liquid? Can the mixture be frozen? I also saw a post mentioning giving Ivermectin to goats orally. Should I give it to the goats orally or by injection?

-- Debbie in IL (debbie@fli-soft.com), March 26, 2002

Answers

Yes the cattle 1% injectable Ivermectin is what we use on the goats, orally and what we use for heartworm prevention orally in our dogs. The original recipe from the vet was for propylene glycol and you are looking in the wrong catalog! I get mine from my vet very cheaply, most of the cost in in shipping the gallon jugs. You are not "worming" the dogs with ivermectin you are replacing the use of Heartguard and the like for heartworm prevention. Yes you can use sterile water or even lactated ringers, you are using the liquid for nothing more than dilution. There is no need to freeze it and since it says not to freeze the Ivermectin I wouldn't in fact you shouldn't be freezing many meds I can think of. I mix it up and keep it in the fridge with a poison label on it. Yes you worm goats orally with all wormers, we use Ivermectin 1% at 2cc per 100 pounds given orally, you can use it as a subq injection but in our area it only works subq at labeled strength for lice, mites and nose bots. You really need to find someone in your area to see if Ivermectin is even recommended for the use of worms in your goats, many areas are resistant due to the miss and under dosing of this drug for years, perhaps ask the breeder you are purchasing from if her fecal samples are showing any resisitance and to which wormers. If she gives you a blank stare than take some fresh berries in from the goats to the vet for a fecal floatation or better yet send them in to Pan Amercian Labs in Austin for a cheap fecal analysis to find out what kind of worms you are even dealing with! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (Nubians) (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

I use it orally for both my goats and my dogs. The goats eat it wonderfully on a piece of raisin bread and the dogs have a small dip of ice cream with theirs mixed into it.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

Center For Disease Control, http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts96.html Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are clear liquids used in antifreeze and deicing solutions.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. It is used to absorb extra water and maintain moisture in certain medicines, cosmetics, or food products. It is a solvent for food colors and flavors.

Eating or drinking very large amounts of ethylene glycol can result in death, while large amounts can result in nausea, convulsions, slurred speech, disorientation, and heart and kidney problems.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

Debbie, you might have your dogs tested for heartworm before giving them any de wormers. If they are infested, killing the microfiliae will severly impact your dogs health. Just takes a little blood placed under the microscope. Good luck, LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), March 26, 2002.

Excellent advise Little Quacker!!! I just came back to check the thread after I got to thinking about it. Definately test dogs first for heartworms before giving the PREVENTATIVE dosage.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

I used to work for an old vet that would use a dab of horse wormer for dogs if the owners didn't want to pay for the real thing. He hated to see dogs get heartworms and some people didn't want to go to the expense, so for the dog's sake he would get just a dab of the horse wormer (I can't remember the brand) and smear it on the dog's gums, which it would then lick off. Depending on how understanding your vet is, he/she may agree to let you in on some of these little worming "secrets," like what other products will work.

-- Jeff (lorianandjeff@aol.com), March 26, 2002.

Let's get it straight; Ethylene Glycol is antifreeze and is POISONOUS Propylene Glycol is used to extend foods. The reason that it is used to extend ivermectin when given orally is that it slows down the elimination of the ivermectin. Without the P. Glycol the animal expels the ivermectin so quickly that it does not do its job throughly. If ivermectin is injected as intended the propylene glycol is not needed.

Mac

-- Jimmy S (Macrocarpus@gbronline.com), March 26, 2002.

Home now, so different email address. Thank you all for your responses. Just to clear things up my animals are current on their heartworm tests, but I have always used Heartguard or whatever the vet recommended, and after reviewing a lot of the info in this forum, and being in the process of acquiring more critters, have decided to try the cheaper route. I can get a 1-2 year supply (depending on drug expiration date) of Ivermectin for less than a 1 month dose for the Mastiff would cost. I was looking on line for the propylene glycol, but will ask the vet, or use sterile water or something. Even if I toss the mixture after using what I need for dosing I will still be ahead. I will also check with the breeder re fecal & area stats, as well as have the goats (2 pygmys to start) checked before dosing. Thanks again for all the great info! This forum is incredible.

-- Debbie in IL (ddjmck@mynex.net), March 26, 2002.

Collies are not the only breed that might suffer Ivermectin toxicity. Shetland Sheepdogs, Australian Shepherds and Old English Sheepdogs have problems with Ivermectin products. This list might be longer, but these breeds come to mind. You might want to test with a low dose. Yvonne

-- Yvonne (windridermorgans@earthlink.net), March 26, 2002.

My vets tell clients to use equine Ivermectin paste dewormers for the dogs under heartworm treatment. They also tell them the correct dosage. They say it's the same Ivermectin in the heartworm medication, but a heck of a lot less expensive. And you had best have the dogs checked for heartworm before starting ANY program.

A friend has done this for years, with the vets blessing, and she has Shelties and Collies.

Unless a vet tells you that you can do what you intend to do above, you're playing with the lives of your dogs.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2222@hotmail.com), March 30, 2002.