I've never posted before, but I've been lurking about for the about a month. I'm pretty new to country living. I was born and raised in a medium sized city and moved in with my boyfriend in November. He lives on twenty acres of partially wodded land. We have goats (not for dairy or meat-just for eating underbrush) and ducks and cats and dogs. It has been quite an adjustment for me, but I love animals so I got used to this kind of life pretty quickly. Three of our does gave birth a few months ago and it was just an awesome thing for me to see. We ended up with five kids: two females and three males. I have really become attached to the goats even though they can be very frustrating sometimes. Yesterday morning, I woke up and founf that some dogs had gotten into our yard and killed three of our goats. They killed little Squiggy and Shirley and one of our pregnant does. It was very disturbing to see and equally distrbing to bury them. I don't need any advice or anything like that. I think I just need to vent to some sympathetic souls. The sheriff's attitude and that of animal control that it is just nature for a dog to kill livestock. I'm not that mad about the dogs because we don't have the most secure enclosure and we had already been planning on getting rid of a few of the goats because they were getting to be too much to handle. It still sucks, though. To all: thanks for listening.

-Erin

-- Erin in AL (erinl411@mchsi.com), April 02, 2002

Answers

i am so sorry, its so hard when an animal dies, and sincenon goat folks dont look at them as anything but "livestock" theres little you can do . the enclosure isnt the problem the dogs are, i would suggest two things, do you have a barn to lock the ladies up at night ? that would be the safest. the second is to get a guard animal , either a llama a donkey or a dog,

i wish you luck , and my condolences

-- Beth Van Stiphout (willosnake@hotmail.com), April 02, 2002.

Oh my Erin..I am so very sorry for your loss. The thing is..if the dogs got away with it this time..I would almost bet that they will be back. Hope you can come up with a solution before that. Try to have a good day.

-- Sher (riverdobbers@webtv.net), April 02, 2002.

Erin, so sorry. My very dear friend who was an experienced goat keeper had a similar dog attack and she had very good fencing and the goats were in the barn, just had the barn door open. I shut mine all up at night now, even in the summer. I can not understand how people can let their dogs run, but they do. Hugs to you and I hope that you can make a more secure place for your goats.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 02, 2002.

I am so sorry for your loss. You really DO need to report it though. Pack dogs can pull down all kinds of livestock and be very agressive to big people and children. Your goats and other critters may never be "safe" again with those animals uncensored, if you get my drift. What a cruddy way to lower your herd.

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), April 02, 2002.

Hi Erin, Let me extend my condolences, too. What a rough day you've had...not to mention the poor little goats' rough day. :(

I agree with the person who said that the dogs will be back, and you should take precautions. I wonder if the sherriff, with his particular view of things, is telling you to handle this as you see fit. As much as I like dogs, I would kill them if they menaced my other animals. No one would blame you if you SSS. Someone else can explain what that means!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 02, 2002.

What about the owners of the dogs?? It was 'just a goat'? Maybe they will take better care of their dogs of you present them with a bill for the dead goats AND the unborn kids. Part of owning a pet is taking responsibily for it. You took responsibility for your goats- they were on your land. The dogs trespassed and ruined your property and your pets! My opinion on this is that had the dogs killed a few horses or cattle, the sheriff would be taking it much more seriously. They don't think your goats were really worth anything. You need to write out a bill and make the owners think twice about what your goats were worth.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), April 02, 2002.

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I am an avid goat man and I understand people's thinking on goats. Most think that goats are just nuisances. I bought a jack and i don't have any dog problems. If any small animal that even looks like a dog or coon or anything like that gets in the fence it is still laying there the next morning. Donkeys are high around here but they are worth there money when you have goats. Donkeys even protect baby calves very well also. Just thought I would drop a word or two to you and again I am very sorry for your loss.

-- B.H (FIRE_RESCUE126@HOTMAIL.COM), April 02, 2002.

Oh Erin, how sad for you. Don't let the non-goat people get to you...they just don't understand. On New Year's Day, my own dog got in a good fence and killed the sheep my husband had gotten me for Christmas. It was horrible, and I have very little use for dogs as pets since. LGD's are different as long as they're trained, but I went with a gueard llama instead...just for heartache's sake. He is great, loves the goats, and will be used for fiber as well. Hope you can find a guardian for your goats, if not, you may have to shoot the dogs to keep from losing all your animals. Keep you chin up and keep us posted. Cara

-- Cara Dailey (daileyd@agalis.net), April 02, 2002.

Erin, Some of the best moments of my day are when I go out and sit with my goats and just be quiet. I love to listen to them while they eat hay. I too am very sorry for your loss. Do keep watch, though, those dogs will probably be back. I've never hesitated when protecting my animals. I'm a very good shot. Take Care. Michelle.

-- Michelle Thomas (mpthomas83@hotmail.com), April 02, 2002.

Do you know which dogs attacked your goats? If so, file a formal complaint.

I'm not a "goat person"--we have dogs, horses, a donkey, a cat and (as of next week) some chickens. Still, as a dog owner, I take my responsibilities seriously. My dogs are all on Invisible Fencing and have 4 of our 10 acres to roam. If my dogs got out and killed someone's animals, I'd be mortified and immediately offer whatever kind of restitution I could (in addition to taking steps to help ensure it would never happen again). You don't have to be a goat person (or even an animal lover) to appreciate the importance of being responsible for your animals' actions.

So, if you know who's responsible, you should approach them. If you THINK you know (but aren't sure), approach them anyway . . . tell them that you're not accusing them and you're not even sure if their animals are responsible, but you did want to share with them what happened in case they see or hear anything. (You can even mention that if a dog sets foot on your property, you'll take whatever steps necessary to protect your animals.)

Also, the idea of a guard donkey is an excellent one. We have a Sicilian donkey (he's about the size of a miniature horse). He eats practically nothing, is never ill and has the sweetest disposition-- unless something threatens the horses, in which case he's brutal. He's gotten used to our dogs (more or less), but if a strange dog comes into the pasture, he'll go after it like a bat out of hell. At $350, he was a bargain!

-- Julie Woessner (jwoessner@rtmx.net), April 02, 2002.

Erin - do you keep a journal? Use it to document everything as it happens. Date the goats were killed, every contact with the sherrif, actions taken, etc. Document the steps you take to further protect your goats, and what happens the next time the dogs visit.

Many law suits and court cases are won by the person who is most organized, documented and has the correct dates, times, etc to back up their side of the story. Hopefully your situation can be resolved long before things get to a court case. And if it does, then your 'journaling' has served to help you deal with a rotten situation.

But don't forget to write down all the good things too!

-- Bernie from Northern Ontario (bernadette_kerr@hotmail.com), April 02, 2002.

So sorry. You might also consider getting an electric fence. It will help not only to keep livestock in but preditors out. As someone once suggested, put a little peanutbutter on a hot wire and they definitely won't be by again.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), April 02, 2002.

Thanks everyone! I worry about it happening again, but I am pretty sure that it was an isolated incident. I have never seen the dogs that killed them running around before. I think they got loose and I am pretty sure that the owner is doing a better job kepping them contained. I'm going out of town for a week, but when I get back, we will go and talk with the neighbors. As far as getting a guard animal is concerned: I had never even thought of that or had even heard of it. When I mentioned it to my boyfriend, he just rolled his eyes at me. :) He's gotten used to not knowing what I will bring home next. I've been trying to convince him for months now to let us get some new animals and this just might be the fuel that I need for my argument. :) But, as I am new to "life on the farm," how do you go about finding llamas or donkeys? Should I just ask at my feed store? Thanks in advance for an help.

-- Erin in AL (erinl411@mchsi.com), April 03, 2002.

I'd definitely talk to someone at the feed store. Around here, that is THE place for folks to buy/sell/trade animals. In fact, feed stores often have a bulletin board where people list animals, equipment, etc. for sale or wanting to buy. In any event, they may know someone who has a donkey or llama and be able to put you in touch with that person who can (hopefully) put you in touch with their source.

-- Julie Woessner (jwoessner@rtmx.net), April 03, 2002.

I would let the Humane Society know about this too. Then I would talk with the sheriff and let him know if you see another dog attacking your goats or animals that you will be bring out the old shotgun !! I would also go to every house in the area and tell them what happened and what you will be doing next time you see a stray dog killing your animals. Around here you actually have to see the dog or wild animals just about chewing on your livestock to shoot at it. But maybe just telling people what you have in mind will be enough to have the keep their dogs home !! I wouldn't be a crazy person when telling them just tell them these are the facts. Do you have coyotes in your area ?? They look like raggedy dogs to me and maybe that is what attacked your goats also. We have had goats for many years and have been very fortunate. I do remember one day walking out of the barn coming within a few feet of a coyote. Guess he thought he was going to walk into the barn. Never saw one that close again..thank goodness. I do bring my girls into the inside pens at least during the night and don't leave them outside very much. Sometimes country life can be brutal. Good Luck !!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), April 03, 2002.

I am sorry to be negitive but I tried the right way.Do not talk to anyone!If you complain to the owner he will blame YOU if anything happens to his or anyones dog and you can bet that the sheriff IS a dog lover and is related to your neihbors!Be very quite and do what you have to do. On the brighter side,ever since I bought a Great Pyrenees I have not lost any livestock. My chickens free range,some of my rabbits too(I have a very bad habit of leaving cages open)my goats sleep with(on) the dogs.I have a litter due any day.

-- snow white (gawmonk@misn.com), April 03, 2002.

I agree with snow white to some extent- we certainly have been blamed when local dogs disappear, even if we didn't do it. We usually give one warning, unless of course the dogs is out there running the stcok or about to attack them, in which case it's target practice.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), April 03, 2002.

You should be angry as hornet!!! And your sheriff is an idiot.

If you live in an agricultural area, most laws allow you to shoot dogs harrassing/killing your stock. Period.

Get the gun out. The dogs will come back. If you know where the dogs are from, you can be nice and warn the owners - if you see them again, they're dead. If they're running in a pack, they're fair game.

I lost one HUGE gander, and at least 2-3 of my ducks to my neighbor's black and yellow labs.......they were out again about 6 weeks ago. One shotgun blast, and the kids were calling them home - so I figure the kids knew they were out.

Believe me, I'm an animal lover. But, there's a limit. Private property is private property, and unknown, unwanted dogs don't belong on yours.

-- V (WraitheLadyA@yahoo.com), April 05, 2002.