Hello,I haven't posted here before,but I hope I can get some help. This morning I went out to take care of our goats and I found 2 identical does dead in the barn,apparently our goat Aubriana went into labor this morning and our Yearling got jealous. (She has a jealousy problem) The yearling stomped the kids to death,we have 2 other does due at the same time as Aubriana. We're going out of state for a few days,and need to get rid of her.We're leaving Wednesday morning and don't have time to put an ad in the local papers,and this isn't the first time she's hurt a goat younger then her. We had to give our other kid his own pen because she tried to hurt him too,Any Suggestions? She needs to go..

-- Amber Marie (OoDancer87oO@aol.com), April 15, 2002

Answers

BBQ anyone ? Seriouslly I would more than likely put her down .How is she around people ? Where are you located maybe someone on board who only wants 1 goat will take her .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

grind her up,, sausage or chilli,, I think we can get enough people together

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.coms), April 15, 2002.

LOL BBQ,not a bad idea,only,she's registered and I'd prefer sell her. As to being around humans,well,I'm 5'4" and if anyone shorter then 5' comes into the pen she'll try to 'butt them down' so,I think a tall person would get along best with her. We're in Norman,OK so,if anyone wants her in the area,let us know. Best Offer..lol.. Our other goats are worth $150-200 each,but,I think she'll probably go in the $25-50 range. We're seriously considering BBQ though.

-- Amber Marie (OoDancer87oO@aol.com), April 15, 2002.

I'm really surprised the doe didn't stop her from hurting her newborn kids. The question would be what kind of mother will she be. I would pen the trouble maker up until I returned home. If you can, pen each of the does that are due to kid separately. I plan on not leaving town until my goats finish kidding and I am putting on hold that visit to my daughter until then. I think my does know this and are "holding in" their kids for a joke !! I guess I would wonder why you haven't gotten rid of her before this. Has she ever kidded and if so how is she with her own kids. Goats are like people in a way. Some of us just don't get along well with others and perhaps this is the story on this goat. i remember going to a friends house one afternoon for a BBQ..he raised sheep at the time. We were having for dinner the one lamb that refused to stay inside the fence. I also don't keep any goat that is a problem or a fence jumper. Just too much happening on the homestead to be chasing a problem goat. Good Luck finding her a home !! Pass the BBQ sauce !!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), April 15, 2002.

I would consider it unethical to pass a problem animal on to someone else, no matter how much money I was losing, and you have already lost two doe kids. She surely should be removed from the gene pool in any case; only the best animals should be used for breeding, no matter the species.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

Her registration papers are worthless with type of behavioral problem, and we all know we pass temperment, likely she came from a very bossy line, and will throw very bossy kids. I agree that it is unethical to sell her. It is one thing for us as owners to put up with odd behavior like this, penning her alone, or with a much older bossy doe or buck, but to sell her to someone even with instructions, most folks will think that they will be able to change her and have the same horrible problems. Pen her seperate while you are away then butcher her, you will at least make some money on not having to buy sausage for awhile. While you are at it you might want to just cull out the whole line. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

Well,she's only a year old so she hasn't been bred yet.We wanted to see her personality before we had her kid,I'm glad we didn't yet. And she's the only one we have that's ever been like that and we also own her Grandmother who's just the sweetest thing in the world. As to selling her we're planning on doing that or BBQing her,we're hoping she'll go to a Single Goat home where she'll only be a lawn mower and before sales we'll be sure to tell them that she is NOT breeder quality and shouldn't ever kid.

-- Amber Marie (OoDancer87oO@aol.com), April 15, 2002.

i agree with vicki, the new owners may just decide they can change her and breed her anyway. temperment comes through the sire's side too-what was he like? she may have some inbalance in her brain-some animals are just born mean. i would butcher her-and keep her separated until then-an animal like that does not need to carry on the line.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

Wow, that stinks!! Sorry to here about that! I have had a few goats that were too arnery for their own good and even had one that was the devil herself! I never planned on eating my goats and have not yet, though the meat is good (I grew up eating it, but just can't kill them myself). You might try putting her in a pen until you get back (I assume it is a trip that can not be put off or you would be doing that, right?), then run an ad saying you have a pasture goat, not good with other goats. I sold a couple that way to some farmers that were wanting lawn mowers only for large pastures and the mean goats got along great out there. It was a large pasture area and the two mean goats could stay away from each other, yet still keep the pasture looking good. Or, you could save yourself some money and just have her butchered. I keep meaning to check with the butchers around here and see what that costs, just in case I get another mean goat. good luck!!

-- Cyndi in Ok (im2bzy2think@aol.com), April 15, 2002.

Only tall people with no other goats who don't want to breed?? I have been waiting for someone to ask you what you are doing for the doe who just lost her kids.........are you milking her?? Actually, I thought this was maybe one of those joke threads that the guys started who wanted to get the goat keepers' goat. :>(

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

i would have to say, looks like goat roast for dinner, i wouldnt breed her, obviously youre not "too" attatched to her, if you want to sell her, also , think about this, agressie goats are sometimes not good breeders , due to intersex, or hormoanl imbalances, i would do the goat world a favor , and cull her, not just from your herd, but from the world of the living goat....

i wish this hadnt happened, but, i had kind of a sniggling thought too, the goat, the mommy, was she a first freshener???, i cant imagine an experinced doe letting this happen...

isf she was a firsty, did you see this other supposed mean goat do the deed?? or do you have proof that it wasnt the mom ?, do you have agressive barn cats?.... mine go in the pen and "steal"placentas..

i guess theres a lot of questions here, but ethicly i wouldnt sell her to anyone.

-- Beth Van Stiphout (willosnake@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

And I thought I had mean goats, wow, she sure is quite a character, more like the doe from H--l. I would suggest that you either sell her for slaughter or slaughter her for your own use. YIKKS!! I will duck before I get fired at! Seriously, even if you were to take her to an auction, such as a regular livestock auction, she may come back to haunt you if someone should buy her and have troubles. Its best to deal with it now than later.

IF you choose to keep her then make sure she is in the back 40 where she can't hurt anyone, but then she would have a lonely life.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

Okay,well. First of all,she is an experienced doe. She didn't even have a chance to get it out of the sack before it was murdered,and I am sure it wasn't the Mom. She's an EXTREMELY motherly goat,and would never hurt another goat which is probably why she hesitated to hurt the other goat. And I'm also sure it wasn't barn cats because the babies had hoof prints on them. What we're doing for the Mama Goat right now is letting her rest,giving her extra love and we're going to milk her out a bit in the morning. I think it'd be kind of traumatic for her to be milked after such an experience. We think she still has a kid left because she's not completely bagged up and we can feel it moving,she's still having some contractions now and then and we're waiting to see if the last one will hold out a while longer. I hope nobody got the impression I'm an inexperienced goat person,because I'm not. I've had goats for years. I just wanted some suggestions on what to do with the goat from hades.

-- Amber Marie (OoDancer87oO@aol.com), April 15, 2002.

We too had a mean goat. The others did stick up for themselves. We always put the goats in a pen by themselves who were ready to kid. We always took the kids away and bottle fed them. We eventually took the mean goat to the auction but should have eaten her. We know better now.

-- Hank (hsnrs@att.net), April 15, 2002.

Clifford Odom in Ft Smith, AR, buys goats. But, like some of the others, I would never sell such a mean goat. Here's why: Other than tin cans, what do people think of when they hear the word 'goat'? They think of a mean, vicious animal that will butt them down. As goatkeepers, it's our responsibilty to counteract the public's impression by taking great care to own and sell only gentle animals. How many people will have their very first experience with a goat, when they meet this one, and go away thinking they are all like that? If you are going to sell her, sell her for meat, or, sell her to someone, informing them that the doe is mean, who will throw her in with a bigger, more dominant doe that will knock some sense and good manners into her!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), April 15, 2002.

The kid was born in the sack with hoof prints on it, perhaps someone was trying in vain to get the kid out of the sack? She may or may not still be bred, or in labor and this happened this morning? She is not bagged up because she only had a single, did she pass the placenta? You feel the kid moving? Have you done an internal exam? Was this kid premature, and you are thinking she only aborted one? Does do not stay in labor all day, get out there go inside and see what is going on. I would milk her. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

Okay,listen up. I never said she had a SINGLE I said she had identical TWIN does. And I didn't say she WASN'T bagged up,I said she probably was but didn't look like it. I have to say,I appreciate all the kind ON SUBJECT thoughts,but,I'm not going to be telling anybody to get their butts over here to be talked to like idiots. Thank you and have a nice Day. Oh,and I have milked the goat since then.

-- Amber Marie (OoDancer87oO@aol.com), April 16, 2002.

. I think it'd be kind of traumatic for her to be milked after such an experience. We think she still has a kid left because she's not completely bagged up and we can feel it moving,she's still having some contractions now and then and we're waiting to see if the last one will hold out a while longer. ................................................................... ...................................................................

This is your post! You said she was having some contractions now and then and were waiting to see if the last one will hold out a while longer??? Hold out longer? Do your does labor over the whole day?

You asked for suggestions, it is in your post, our suggestions were to not pass this problem on to other folks, you were the one who then came back on to explain that perhaps she was still pregnant with kid 3! And you did not see the yearling stomp the kids to death, lots of does will paw their own kids into the bedding for no reason at all, perhaps the kids were born dead and the dam herself did it.

We are a very nice group of folks, years of experience in goats between us, why post a question and then get mad at the answers, learn from some, delete the rest...........Vicki (how come I know that this is going to do no good.........oooppps! I was deleted :)

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 16, 2002.

Amber you asked the question , if you don't like the answers to bad don't ask .If the doe still has one in her common sense would say get a vet something is not right .Common sense would also tell you to cull the doe to the bbq or sausage machine. You say you have been in goats fo some time , well maybe you still have more to learn. You have access to many great and helpfull goat people , many know much more than any vet .And all this for free. I have a problem with someone coming off like you did , they have helped me many times before and I cannot thank them enough.And even after your post they would help you again.

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 16, 2002.

hummmmmmm.........joke thread?? :>(

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 16, 2002.

My daddy used to say, "It takes all kinds to make a world!"

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), April 16, 2002.

Well said Vicki!

Amber I wish you well, it would have been beneficial if you would have asked exactly what you wanted to know. We all work hard to help others and I am highly offended by your curt remarks to those who took the time to answer your question.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 16, 2002.

amber marie, you do seem a little defensive. these people are trying to help. there is no reason to go off on them like you did. as for the mean yearling, into the freezer she would go if she's truly mean.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.

I don't know that I would blame the kids death on the yearling. Yes, you're right, she has a personality problem and should be culled for it. I would isolate her, not the ones that she picks on because she'll always find another. But it just seems odd to me that the mother wouldn't protect her kids.

We had a doe deliver twins this spring. The first buck was born fine, the second buck was smaller, and breach. She also delivered a small sack of hair covered tissue. The breach baby lived 24 hours. The mom 'sensed' that something wasn't quite right with him. She was very attentive at first, talking to him, cleaning him and pushing him to get up. She was 'hoofing' him quite a bit too, and NOT gently. He did nurse her and I was also able to get some colostrum into him with a bottle. But he just didn't seem right to me. That evening she started ignoring him. The next morning I found that she had buried him in the corner of the stall. I wasn't too worried about the loss since he was going to be a meat buck, and no, I didn't have a necropsy done. I just found it interesting how the mother handled the situation.

-- Charleen in WNY (harperhillfarm@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.

Its funny how animals seem to know. I recently experienced something similiar in Feb when we kicked off our kidding season. One of my does kidded and had twins, buck and doe. We were away for the day but our daughter in-law was here, so she noticed her kidding. checked her internalkly and pulled a dead buck kid, maybe dead 2-3 days. Then a doe wa snext, Hannah, she wasn't breathing. So Michelle went into action and swung the baby, still no response so she gave mouth to mouth. She saved Hannah, but Hannah's mom didn't wat much to do with her. She looked like, "Hey you're not supposed to be here, you're dead!" Hannah is alive and well, doing great.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.