As I indicated above, I will be a first time Leica owner in a few months. I am a devoted amateur and have used SLRs for close to 15 years having started with a Pentax K1000 and now have a Canon EOS system (economy model).

In other words, because of my low salary, I have never thrown huge wads of cash at a camera before, but I am ready.

I live in Taipei, Taiwan (but from the US) and I will buy my cameras here in the city.

I shopped around the other day and found out I could still pick up a new M6 classic without ttl. Or a new M6 TTL, or a used M6 TTL, or for that matter a used M3. I do not know enough about these cameras to be confident to examine used ones to see if they are up to snuff. Nor do I know anyone in Taipei who could help. BY the way the new M6 TTL bodies are going for about US$1550

Oh I don't care too much for macros, telephotos, flash photog or staged shots, just street and journo.

Also, I am on a budget, the most I can see spending on body and lense is US$2600.

Any advice would be welcome. I hope I didn't blather on...

Hyatt Lee

-- Hyatt Lee (shahmat@ms63.hinet.net), April 19, 2002

Answers

Hi there, 20 years ago I had an M2, loved it but sold it to finance my student days. I've been through a succession of SLRs both autofocus and manual and now have an M6 Classic/28mm/35mm and an old R3 and R4 with some tele lenses, For me, it doesn't really matter which M to get but a new one does take the chances out of it. I bought a "new" M6 and am delighted, I love the meter, Ilove the handeling, and to be honest, TTL flash metering doesn't interest me, An M's whole raison d'etre is handheld, quiet unobtrusive photography, ie street and journo just as you wish.

My advice would be Get the best price NEW M6 and a wide lens, 28 or 35 would be ideal, (to be honest, since getting the 28, my 35 gets less and less use and might well be traded towards a 75mm)

I am by no means an expert, I'm sure many of my more learned contributers will add their views but just go to the store and play around with an M6, the only problem is that you will not want to put it down! It becomes a tool that , after using EOS such as 500/rebel etc, makes you realise how you can forget about the camera and concentrate on the picture.

rambling reply but good luck and enjoy, you will have your camera a long time so choose wisely...a classic should be quite a bit cheaper than a TTL, if not, get the ttl!....next problem...which viewfinder mag??? (mines a 72)

have fun

john

-- John Tobias (johntobias@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

All things being equal I would get an M6TTL, as the electronics are newer and more likely to remain in Leica's parts inventory longer than those for the classic. I myself have 2 classics and never had the slightest urge to spend money to upgrade to the TTL for what I consider frivolous features, but if buying new today I would accept the TTL.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 19, 2002.

Hyatt,

FWIW, I would look to some of the recommended secondhand sellers mentioned on this Website, e.g., The Photo Village, and others. These are reputable people who will work with you, and help you get the most bang for the buck. With the release of the new M7 there will/are quite a few M6 "classics" and "TTLs" out there to choose from. IMHO, either would make a fine beginning kit. I recently purchased another "classic" body, which, for me, was the right thing because I want both camera bodies to operate the same way. I am used to the "classic", so, that's what I got. If, you start with the "TTL" version you'll get used to it. The good news is the lenses fit all the Leica M models with rare exception. If you browse through the LUSENET you'll begin to see certain dealers names repeated as good sources. That's what I did, your mileage may differ.

Cheers,

J.

-- J.L.Kuhn (james.kuhn-1@kmail.ksc.nasa.gov), April 19, 2002.

the advantage of the classic (apart from marginally smaller size) is that it drains the batteries much ess quickly than the ttl. the advantage of the ttl (apart from the useless-to-me ttl function), as stated already, is the longer availability of parts. parts, however, shouldn't be a big problem for years, long after film has gone the way of edison cylinders. if it were me, i'd get a classic. actually, i'd get a black paint m4. but that's me.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), April 19, 2002.

I respectfully disagree with John's suggestion to buy a new camera. I am and was in a similar situation to the one you describe - not lots of hobby funds available, but fervent desire for a Leica. I got a near mint M6TTL from Photo Village (I'm pleased with Photo Village and recommend them too.). By buying a camera in the range of "excellent plus" to "mint" condition you save hundreds. My Leica cannot be distinguished from a new one except for a tiny bright mark on the shutter speed dial. I bought an "ex+" 1968 50mm Summilux lens also (for about $700 less than a new one). If money were no object I might go for a new one. Money being very much an issue, I believe I did very, very well. As to the choice of M6 or M6TTL, I like the more sensitive light meter, large shutter speed dial and 3 diode display which the TTL has, but this is not such a big issue for me - I could be very happy with a regular M6. The more important issue IMHO is to buy used, in ex+ or better, and from a reliable dealer.

-- Ollie Steiner (violindevil@yahoo.com), April 19, 2002.

Getting a new or demo one dramatically reduces the chances of anything being wrong with it, assuring peace of mind. That equates to an M6 TTL. OTOH, a mint condition M6 would be worth considering. Remember, the external appearance does not tell you anything about the camera,s true condition. I handled an M6 recently -- looked fine, but the meter was not working.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), April 19, 2002.

Hyatt: I would look at a new body for the warranty and a used lens. I have M6 and M3. The warranty on a body is for if anything goes wrong, but on a lens, either it is good or bad out of the box normally. I use the classic and have no use for the TTL. The TTL has an off switch for the meter, but then so does my classic, I don't cock the shutter until I am ready to shoot. In 4 years, I have gone through one set of batteries. The classic is older, but a new one should still have a warranty. They stopped building the classic around 2440xxx, or close to it. Look at the serial number before buying a new classic. The early ones had some problems with the electronics. Bottom line, it is your money and your decision. Go with your instinct. FWIW

-- Mark Johnson (logical1@catholic.org), April 19, 2002.

I second the opinion for getting a new body and used lens. If I were you, I'd pick up a new M6 classic or TTL. If you're not interested in the TTL function, I'd probably go for the classic and save your money for the lens.

Speaking of the lens, I love my 28 'cron and probably use it more than any other lens, but If I had to have one lens only, I'd probably go for a 35 'cron, since the 'lux would probably put you over your price range. The 35 is great for street work, where the 28 is sometimes a bit wide. It's also great for enviornmental portraits, etc. If you plan to get another lens in the near future, you could go for a 28 now and a 50 or 75 down the road.

-- Noah Addis (naddis@mindspring.com), April 19, 2002.

To clarify my earlier answer, here in the UK, a New 6 TTL is only slightly ( ~$200-300 ) more than an ex++, money I'd be happy to spend on peace of mind I think the M6ttl used price drop is still to filter across the atlantic. My advice would still be new body, mint/ex++ lens

cheers

John

-- John Tobias (johntobias@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

Hyatt, what finder magnification would you prefer? If you shoot wide- angles a lot, a 0.58 (hence a new TTL) would be perfect. If you don't and you like the 90mm, get a 0.85 (also a new TTL). It'd be quite hard to buy them used, however.

A 0.72 (plenty of used classic) plus a 1.25x magnifier would be a good compromise too.

The TTL models have a bigger shutter speed dial that turn the same way as the meter indicators. However, you can't use flash with a dead battery. You could use 1/60 sync with the classic, FWIW. The rangefinder of my 0.85 TTL flares very often and some say that this model has the worst flare. I'm not sure whether this is true, though.

Since you live in Taiwan, you could try buying (or have someone buy for you) a new TTL from Hong Kong where they have probably the best prices. I got mine around 2 years ago for about USD1540 from an authorized dealer in Mongkok. However, used prices in HK are high and the selection is no good.

-- Andrew (mazurka@rocketmail.com), April 24, 2002.

Hyatt

My advice for the most Leica bang for $$: a used M6 classic and a first version 28/35/50 Tri-Elmar ASPH. I recently picked up a first version TE in Ex+ condition and a similar condition M6 classic for about the same $ as your budget allows.

The Tri-Elmar is a fantastic lens for street shooting and documentary work. It's a bit on the slow side for some, but you get 3 ASPH corrected focal lengths for little more than a new 35/2 Summicron.

My 0.02

William

-- William Gower (w_gower@sympatico.ca), May 07, 2002.