Those who are interested in Voigtlander camera bodies and looking for a replacement for their Leica CL will be appreciative of the new Voigtlander Bessa R-2 at: http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtBR2.htm . It's all metal finally and a major step up for Cosina. Stephen Gandy has gotten a few of those out and apparently it has been well-received by his customers so far. Sounds like a fabulous option no doubt.

This camera is like a budget version of the Leica M6. All mechanical and nothing to boot except the lack of a cloth shutter :) and a black enamel finish.

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002

Answers

Definately a nice camera (Love the Olive one) and although it may be an entry level camera like the CL once was it is NOT a replacement for the CL as you put it. CL stands for "Compact Leica" after all and the R2 is in fact slightly larger than the original R its not what I consider compact enough to warrant the "CL Replacement" banner.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

Am I missing something here? I thought VC's were made in Japan, yet the picture of the back of the R-2 (with back plate open) clearly says GERMANY. Is this like Grundig claiming to be a German electronics company when their stuff is made in China?

-- Ken Geter (kgeter@yahoo.com), April 20, 2002.

It sounds to good to be true a perfect second body.Does it suffer from shutter lag!how much will it cost,i will wait to read some feedback from users,but if all pans true i will buy it.Thanks Alfie.

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), April 20, 2002.

The shutter doesn't lag, but it is metal, with two sets of blades, so it's noisier than that old Leica cloth shutter "snick." The rangefinder doesn't have a long base, so don't try your 90/2 wide open. It costs over $500, the viewfinder is bright, and you get 1/2000 top speed, and 1/125 flash sync. (so in some ways, it's better than a Leica M!)

-- Phil Stiles (Stiles@metrocast.net), April 20, 2002.

"the picture of the back of the R-2 (with back plate open) clearly says GERMANY"

It says Germany, but not "Made in Germany." "Made in Japan" is stamped elsewhere on the camera. I think this is a bit shameful, but not really dishonest, on Cosina's part. They know that everyone knows they are not the same Voigtlander as before, but they are trying to associate themselves with the image of traditional, Leica-esque photography.

-- Masatoshi Yamamoto (masa@nifty.co.jp), April 20, 2002.

The Leica CL is engraved Leitz Wetzlar in MUCH larger writing on the very top no less. "Made in Japan" is on the removable back but not highlighted in white paint like the Leitz Wetzlar so is not easy to see at first glance. Never heard them referred to as shameless for that? When you licence a brand name you have to print it as the owner specifies.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Joel. Masatoshi is right. The CL is a collaboration between Leitz and Minolta. It is perfectly appropriate for Leitz Wetzlar to be on that camera. On the other hand, Cosina bought the Voigtlander name. There is nothing at all in these Cosina products that has anything to do with Voigtlander, a company that went out of business years ago, except for the names of the lenses and cameras that Cosina BOUGHT the right to use. Why are they ashamed to use their own name on these products?

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), April 21, 2002.

They're not asahmed, I'm sure, it's just a matter of brand. Cosina means budget SLR's and lenses to most of us, while voigtlander is a more upmarket brand, and they want to plug into that. And if the cameras/lenses are good, then why not?

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), April 21, 2002.

Eliot, the original assertion first raised by someone else was that it was deceptive in that people would think it was a German made camera rather than a Japanese, to which the Leica CL example is far bolder. Nowhere on the Leica CL does it say "manufactured by Minolta" or "in Collaboration with Minolta" so the deception is just as valid. The Leitz Minolta CL is a much fairer badged model and is embossed in white licenced by Leitz Wetzlar on the back of the top cover and Leitz Minolta on the top. The Leica CL's badging was clearly designed to play down its country of manufacture and its association with Minolta. My point was that Leica has dabbled in misleading badges themselves and not to judge others as shameless for similar practises. Leica's name on digital lenses for Panasonic that are of Canon origin are more recent examples, all they did was let Panasonic use their name. Its not shameless just business.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

Rob. My comment was not addressed to the quality of Cosina RF products but the inappropriate [at least IMO] use of the name of a defunct German company's products and the use of "Germany" on their camera body. Cosina products (one of which I own, the 15/4.5 Heliar Aspherical) represent excellent value. I just don't think they ought to "pretend" this has anything to do with Germany or a German maker.

Joel. I think you are wrong about the Leitz CL. This camera was primarily designed by Leitz. It uses the Leitz M bayonet mount, the swinging meter cell of the Leitz Leica M5, and the Leica M bayonet mount. There is more than enough "Leica M" in this camera body to justify the prominent "Leitz Wetzlar" on the body. And the camera body does say "Made in Japan" on it.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), April 21, 2002.

Sorry. In the second paragraph, I meant to add that the CL also uses the Leica M type range/viewfinder system and Leica M-like frameline system.

-- Leica (erosen@lij.edu), April 21, 2002.

I'm sure that in some parallel universe, Harley Davidson went bancrupt in the 1960ies; in 1998, John Deere bought the rights to the name in that universe, and now you can buy Harley Davidson lawn mowers over there.

IMHO there is a marketing reason behind the use of 'Voigtländer'. If you understand the advantages of a rangefinder camera (and when not to use one), you probably know the history of the original company, and that Cosina SLRs and SLR lenses are targeted at the budget-oriented end of the SLR market. But many of those zooms we know under 'Vivitar', 'Soligor', and a few other brand names, appear as 'Voigtländer' in several European countries. If the clerk in the camera store tells you that Leica aficionados like the Voigtländer Skopar, aren't you willing to pay a few € more for that 20-500mm Apo-Skopar which must be soo excellent?

-- Oliver Schrinner (piraya@hispavista.com), April 22, 2002.

Maybe they should call it the bResson?

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), April 22, 2002.