not that it's not nice . . .

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), April 20, 2002

Answers

Apparently new R8s are and M6TTLs should be...

-- John Collier (jbcollier@shaw.ca), April 20, 2002.

Well, my Colorplan 90mm f/2.5 is marked made in Portugal. For my projector that is.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

what's the point? my vw is made in mexico. so what?

as far as i know the r3 was made in portugal with german subassemblies, so what?

is there a hierarchy of quality with respect to german vs. canada vs. japan vs. portugal? it's mainly BS. think about it!

-- Steve (leitz_not_leica@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

Probably due to historical reason. Germany has the longest and deepest root in optical design and manufacturing, followed closely by Japan. There are still many first rank "Made in Germany "cameras, Linhof, Rollei TLR/SLR and Minox.

There are also many name brand Japan optical/camera manufacturers, Canon, Nikon, Sigma to name a few.

Portugal has Leica

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), April 20, 2002.

New EU regulation probably prohibit the use of ambiguious marking such as "Leica GmbH Germany" using head office instead the place of manufacturing.

Full disclosure is certainly better.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), April 20, 2002.

My R4 is marked Portugal.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), April 20, 2002.

"what's the point? my vw is made in mexico. so what?"

There may be reasons other than quality (real or perceived) for wanting to know the country of origin. I avoid buying things made in China as much as possible (almost impossible these days) because of the forced labor of political prisoners and the rampant counterfeiting of trademarked goods by Chinese factories. They even turn out entire motorcycles, label them "Honda," and sell them in other countries. This may not be the case in Portugal, but it could be something other than quality than concerns a buyer. Labor practices? A protest against a certain government and its policies?

-- Masatoshi Yamamoto (masa@nifty.co.jp), April 20, 2002.

Both my R8's say "Made In Portugal". I insisted on that when I bought them, so as to be certain I had the latest production, in the hopes they might not be full of glitches. So far so good.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 20, 2002.

..forced labor of political prisoners and the rampant counterfeiting of trademarked goods by Chinese factories. I'm not PRC Chinese but let's keep the shallow pseudo political grandstanding out of this forum.

-- Fred Sun (redsky3@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

I told my wife she will not get anymore diamonds from me due to the fact that these little rocks are financing blood baths in Africa, so she told me to walk to work everyday since Mid East oil will be responsible for the eventual destruction of western civilization. OK she is getting those diamond earrings......

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), April 21, 2002.

Fred> Totally agree with you.

-- WP Cheng (cwpcsl@netvigator.com), April 21, 2002.

Chinese cameras are still not up to international standards. Last month Popular Photography had an article on Seagull 107 TLR with lens test. The four element 3 group tessar type taking lens resolution is not as good as Rolleiflex Planar. The Shaighai plant which makes the TLR also makes Minolta SLRs for sale world wide. Many Japanese manufacturers rushing to open factories in China, because labour cost is only 1/10 of that in Japan. Market economy.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), April 21, 2002.

Excuse me but I don't see the parallel between something designed and fabricated completely under the auspices of Chinese (or Portugese or whatever) manufacturers, and something designed in Solms or Tokyo and built using their specifications in tooling by Chinese (or Portugese or whatever)workers trained and supervised by OEM personnel. That would be tantamount to comparing being treated by a folk-medicine practitioner in a hut in Outer Mongolia to being treated by an Outer Mongolian with an M.D. from Johns Hopkins in an American-built hospital in Outer Mongolia.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 21, 2002.

jay -- if you had a choice, would you prefer to be treated by the hopkins-educated doctor in the outer-mongolian hospital or by the same physician AT johns hopkins in baltimore?? while the doctor may be the same, local health care standards are much higher in the u.s.a., there is a much larger supply of skilled labor here, and there is much readier access to high quality medicines/medical machinery. plus the hopkins guy in baltimore would be able to have immediate access to folks in the "home office" in the event of trouble. hopkins would also be able to exert much better QC over the on-site doctor as opposed to the fellow working on his own in outer mongolia.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), April 21, 2002.

"They even turn out entire motorcycles, label them "Honda," and sell them in other countries. "

Why not ? Wuyang Honda in Guang Zhou cannot sell Honda motorcyle they made in other countries ?

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), April 21, 2002.

Made in Germany cameras and or lenses are given higher regard by the market,and fetch higher prices.

Made in Germany Rollei 35S has the same specification, made with German machine, yet fetches high prices then same camera "Made in Singapore"

Contax SLR Carl Zeiss lens(Germany) is a more expensive than same lens made in Japan.

I think this is a market fact, like it or not.

Like watches, "Swiss movement" is perceived to be superior

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), April 21, 2002.

Leica moved production to Portugal

Nikon going to move digital camera manufacture to China and Minolta has moved SLR and digital camera to Shanghai >/a>

Investors liked this news, such that Nikon share rosed 30% !

Sony, Fuji already has shops in China, Olympus is contemplating jump on the bandwagon.

This is globalization

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), April 21, 2002.

I quite agree Martin, quality control or not, quality, function and style of goods is always judged primarily by country of origin, Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, England, USA, each are famous for a particular range of goods, why else would brand names slap a 'Made in Italy' or 'Made in France' label if it didnt mean anything.

-- Karl Yik (karl.yik@dk.com), April 22, 2002.

why else would brand names slap a 'Made in Italy' or 'Made in France' label if it didnt mean anything.

Because it's a legal requirement for most products.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), April 22, 2002.