In light of the fact that the author of the book was a Catholic, what did you all think of the movie Lord of the Rings?

Did you think the storyline reflected Catholic thought in any way?

As for me, without saying why, the movie ousted my long standing favorite Braveheart into the number two position.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 25, 2002

Answers

With regards to Catholicism, I liked the book "Fellowship of the Ring" better than the movie, although I think they did a great job with the opening Isuldir scene and the Balrog.

What's always puzzled me about the Ring trilogy though is why Tolkein decided to save Frodo and Sam from Mt. Doom using the eagle. If it's that easy for the eagle to get into Mordor, why didn't they just give the Ring to the EAGLE in the first place and spare everyone the heartache?

Just a-grumblin here,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 25, 2002.

I should have wrote "Fellowship of the Ring"; but at any rate, in particular I wondered also what people thought of its kind of magical or mythical feel as compared to something like Harry Potter... what is the principle which makes it ok here and not with other types of magic-oriented literature? I see a difference, and have no problem with it at all, but I was wondering if someone could accurately identify what that difference is.

The Balrog scene was incredible.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 25, 2002.

There might have been an earlier post here on this. There is a well known letter Tolkien wrote to his priest explaining that LOTR was definitely a Catholic work. There is all types of Catholic imagery in it - the lembas (not mentioned in the movie) is symbolic of manna and/or the Blessed Sacrement. Galadriel is a figure of the Blessed Mother. The wizard/magic issue is hard to explain, but you are right in that it all "feels" different in LOTR than in , for example, Harry Potter. For one thing, one senses in LOTR that the magic comes from a higher power, unlike in Harry Potter, where the wizards have it within them. There is also a much more definite sense of good and evil in LOTR.

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Hey Christina, I like that one about the source of power. Also, I noticed a continual theme of self sacrifice. I wondered about the Mary figure also. Best dialogue I thought was when they were in the cave, Frodo talking with the wizard about the nature of carrying a responsibility or burden... not wanting the task related to the ring.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 25, 2002.

I am trying hard to not go into my supportive frenzy for Harry Potter. But I wish tomention one interesting point. The basic premise of the Potter story is one of self-sacrifice for the people he cares for, and for the desire to see good prevail over evil. I present the chess scene. Harry takes the role of a chess piece...a bishop. He defeats the evil force in the end on the story. I know many hate the books, and feel they promote witchcraft, but the fact is, most kids know it's fiction. Most kids are mentally more advanced, and just enjoy the stories as entertainment. The author is actually a Christain, a member of the Church of Scotland. People may spear me for my viewpoint, but I think that the premise of the books speaks to children at a level they can relate to, to show them that it is honorable to defend right over wrong. The fight for the good, and not sit back and let bad things come to others. And if any child tries any of the "spells" in the books, they will be sadly disappointed...they were all made up. Literary devices.

It should also be noted, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has shared their praise, and encouragement, where Harry Potter is concerned. Here is an exerpt from the link I will provide:

"Parents concerned about the film's sorcery elements should know that it is unlikely to pose any threat to Catholic beliefs. "Harry Potter" is so obviously innocuous fantasy that its fiction is easily distinguishable from real life. Harry uses his "magical powers" for good to fight evil. Parents and children can enjoy this fetching tale in the same spirit of the time-honored tradition of sorcery in Eastern Literature, such as the magical figure of Merlin in the Arthurian legend. And the film ends with a very upbeat, positive message about sacrificial love. Older children should be able to handle it, although it is too long and intense for younger ones."

See the full story at http://www.usccb.org/movies/h/harrypotterfullreview.htm

We sadly underestimate the mental acumen of our youth. They *do* understand this story is fantasy. If we were to excuse Potter stories from our children's lives, then we have to also include Lord of the Rings and Narnia. Some may protest, saying those series do not instruct readers on how to do magical things, but I protest. Frodo gains possession of a magical ring, and encounters many magical happenings. The children of the wardrobe emerge from a magical door, and face mystical activities, actually engaging in them. And, if memory serves, Dorothy clicked the magical heels of ruby-red shoes to get home, even if it *was* a dream in the end. These characters ALL used the means of 'magic', but why don't we denounce them?

None of the charges against Harry Potter hold water. Harry is simply an allegorical example of doing the right thing. The example? When your loved ones, and righteousness is at stake, you must act against that which is wrong.

And kids have been sparked with te desire to read as a result of these books. All books. How is that bad?

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 25, 2002.

Sorry. The passion I have for this topic made me type too fast. I have corrected others for their grammar, so I wanted to defend my mis- keyed rant.

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 26, 2002.

All right then, I'll give you the Harry Potter thing, because to be honest I haven't read any of it. Replace 'Harry Potter' with the phrase 'things that might seem to someone to deal with the occult'.

As far as Fellowship of the Rings being a fantasy, I see it as more of an artistic depiction of unseen realities. The director of the assylum I escaped from seemed to agree with me on that one...

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 26, 2002.

Hi Emerald!

I'm not sure where it's at (somewhere in the archives I guess), but Chris B. posted a link to an article about Tolkien, and his being Catholic and how it affected his writing etc. I will try to find it if I can.

Have you read the books? Just curious. I thought that the movie was a pretty good adaptation of the book, however, of course, some things were changed. The scene you referred to about Gandalf and Frodo talking in the cave about not wanting the burden was a part of the book, but it actually happened at Frodo's house before they ever started the journey. Even though they moved it, I'm glad they kept it in the movie because I think it was such an important point!

As far as LOTR vs. Harry Potter, it's my opinion that good vs. evil is more relevant in LOTR. The magic that is used is for good, especially the good of others. In Harry Potter (no offense Melissa), it seems that it is much more "self-serving". The Harry Potter books are a good read, my kids love them, but in my opinion, LOTR is far superior in theme, content, principles, and depth.

Ok, I'm getting off my soapbox now!

Anyway, LOTR is my favorite book by far, so I am speaking out of my preference, I'm sure. But LOTR was my favorite way before I knew that Tolkien was Catholic.

I must say though, Frank, that I never thought about it like that with the eagle and Frodo and Sam! What an excellent point! :D

cksunshine

-- cksunshine (cklrun@hotmail.com), May 07, 2002.

CKSunshine,

I agree, TLOtR was really an epic work, and HP are just good stories. One can look at Tolkein's appendixes(sic?) to see how much thought he put into his work, compared to Rowling's pot-boiling 3rd and 4th books.

On the Eagles, I think someone could say that someone was necessary to be a Sacrifice, so it had to be carried painfully, and at the end they were "brought back" from death to be with their friends. IMO though, I personally think he may have just gotten to "know" his characters so well he couldn't bear to kill them off. Who knows, in time I may get to ask him!

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 07, 2002.

I guess if the "t" isn't capitalized, the "o" shouldn't be either! How about TLotR?

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 07, 2002.