Hi Folks,

I was just looking at some old annullment threads. One of the threads about lying (pre-marriage/nullity) from Gordon.

The lying part is what got me to thinking.

As most of you already know, most of my friends are catholic. We all have children in the same age range. My ten year old son and his friends all play sports, football in particular. Football games in their age category are early sunday mornings. Therefore these kids miss CCD classes as well as the childrens MASS.

Now the lying part; In order for the children to attend CCD, the parents lie to whomever is in charge of CCD registration, and tell them that both parents work on sundays, therefore they need to attend CCD during the weekday.

This is done for the sole purpose of sports. These kids never even make the childrens MASS.

When a few parents told me about this, I couldn't believe it. I asked them "how can you look them in the eyes like that and lie, and in the rectory to boot!" They didn't even think twice about it.

Now this is Pop Warner Football which is an organization all over the states. My suggestion to them was; The older kids who no longer go to CCD on sunday mornings, get the middle to late afternoon games. Why doesn't someone contact the Board of the Pop Warner Football Organization and request a time change so that the kids can attend CCD and MASS. As of yet no one has done this.

Don't you think the people in the rectory that accept registrations would catch on by now? This, in my understanding is done with mostly grammar school aged kids.

Any opinions on this?

-- Kathy (Curious@aol.csm), April 25, 2002

Answers

BTW.......I should mention, that not ALL of my friends do this, but alot of parents who have children playing football do.

-- Kathy (Curious@aol.csm), April 25, 2002.

Perhaps they *do* know, Kathy. Especially if there are a number of them doing it.

I think it's rotten, though, the way the football league has that set up. I'd definitely say something. That just seems wrong to me.

And you all have a children's mass??? How neat is that?! Never heard of it, actually.

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 25, 2002.

Kathy,

When I was growing up, we had a variety of times for CCD (early morning Sunday, late morning) to work around sports schedules. Anyway, if there aren't a variety of times to attend CCD, what can I say? These people are teaching their children:

1) Football is more important than CCD. Maybe they have to pay when registering for football.

2) Lying is OK for adults.

Hmmm...time to re-evaluate priorities.

As a side note, I do know people who are compulsive liars (not Catholics :-) ). They are so accustomed to this kind of lying that they make up stories even when they don't have anything to hide! I think it becomes habitual.

I pray that these parents realize the clear message that they're sending their kids.

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 25, 2002.

Kathy,

PLEASE begin using a new EMAIL address! The gentleman who owns the email "Curious@aol.com" sent us all a letter to tell us that he has been receiving automatic mail from the server. Could you begin using either an obviously bogus email (no_spam@no_spam.spam) or use your real email? This gentleman would appreciate if you would cease using his email address.

Moderator,

Is there something you could do to keep Kathy's threads from automatically sending email to "Curious@aol.com"?

Thanks,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 25, 2002.

CCD used to be held after school when I was young, never on weekends, which was fine at the time through junior high school.

Today though (and football isn't the only culprit here), there seems to be a lot of afterschool activities (through school or not) that even involve elementary school children.

And, sad to say (and even Ann Landers has commented on this in her column), you have a lot of coaches/advisors for whom winning is everything, and they don't care about church activities or family activities. Some of them even say, choose, you can't do both. We're talking here of not even making allowances to go visit the other parent in the case of divorce.Coaches/advisors were not like that when I attended school--they always respected family first.

Although, the kids you mention seem to be old enough to be attending adult Mass anyway. I've seen in some parishes where the children are dismissed until perhaps the Presentation of the gifts, then brought back for the rest of Mass.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 26, 2002.

How's that Mateo? I don't mind changing it, I wasn't aware of this poor guy recieving mail.

Hi Jackiea......yes, the local Catholic Churchs' have a 9:00 or 9:30 mass, called children/family mass. It is before CCD, which does not take place in the Church. CCD takes place at the High School.

Mateo.......there are a variety of times, but not on sunday. The younger kids attend mass on sundays, while the older kids attend mass after school during the week. And, I believe the weekly mass is held at the church.

GT..........It is my understanding that the kids can attend any mass, but they do have a special mass for families with children. The masses are different, the childrens mass or family mass if you will, is given at the younger children's level, for better understanding of the service. I personally think it is a good thing.

I think there are several ways for an easy soulution to this.

-- Kathy (nomail@sorry.com), April 26, 2002.

I need to make a correction here, sorry..........I meant to say Mateo; that the younger kids attend "CCD classes" on sunday, while the older kids attend "CCD classes" after school during the week. And I believe weekly "CCD classes" are held at the church, downstairs.

And, the easy solution I was referring too, is for the parents to be truthful and upfront. But not that the Church should change its' time for CCD classes, but that the sporting events could change their time's due to the fact they are all playing under the same orginazation.

Sorry if I have confused any of you.

-- Kathy (nomail@sorry.com), April 26, 2002.

Jackiea,

The Mass on Sundays around 9:30-10:30 has always been considered as the family Mass. It is when the parents bring their kids to Mass and they are then during the first half of the Mass taken to another part of the Church for instructions and lessons on their faith. If you have never seen it, actually have a separate Missal for the kids Mass done in words that youngsters can understand more readily including the Eucharistic celebration in simplified language for them and shortened to help keep their attention. I have seen this Mass done just recently for the first Communion kids and it is sure different. It is designed to help to get the kids interested in the Church and to hold their attention. Check it out the Childrens Missal is available for all to have. BLESSINGS.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 26, 2002.

Hi Fred,

Yes, what you posted is the idea. I know the only difference from what you postd is, the children are not pulled aside and taken to another part of the church for instructions, because they go down the street and around the corner to the High School for their instuction in faith. And, the family mass here I know is at 9:00, because CCD starts at 10:10. The service is done on a level to their (the childrens')understanding.

-- Kathy (nomail@sorry.com), April 26, 2002.

Kathy

The Childrens Mass and the CCD are two different things entirely. Typically during the "Family Mass", the youngsters kindergarten to the second Grade are taken to a separate room in hte church for instructions and then returned just before the Eucharistic celebration. Typically this is about a 20-30 minute sessin for them. The Childrens Mass is not often done due to time restraints and other factors such as lack of Priests time to do the Mass and other factors. The Family Mass is just the same as the regular Mass and the Childrens Mass is done with an entirely different and more simplified language that is intended for the younger audience. I have only seen it done once and I believe they also use it for the First Communion Mass for the kids too.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 26, 2002.

I was going to say, CCD is separate from what I've seen at Mass, which is story/playtime for the under-6s, then a "junior version" of the readings/sermon for the older ones, which they actually could (and should) do at every Mass--it would certainly ease the overcrowding at certain Masses.

Also, what about the "family religious instruction" books I hear about in some places? Is that a substitute for CCD or something different? Perhaps that could be an option, and then the children could be tested on their knowledge.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 26, 2002.

I was not asking for the separate Masses for Children (although you would probably have more adults attending as well to get away from the adult Mass with its multiple collections, lol), but I think that they should have preschool and "junior condensed version" at every Mass--not just at the 9:30 Sunday Mass--these are conducted by lay people.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 26, 2002.

Well, I only *wish* we had something like that. It would make it so much easier. We have a 7:30am Mass at one church in our parish and then a 10:30am Mass at the other church. And there is no CCD class on Sunday morning anymore. That stopped a long time ago. It's on Wednesday nights now. It was supposed to be more convenient but it's just plain stupid, if ya ask me. They don't get out of there until after 8pm. And my kids go to bed at that time. With all the homework and everything else kids have nowadays, they need their rest. To try and get them home from school, get their homework done, do their chores, rush them out the door for CCD classes, then get them home, feed them, take their showers, THEN go to bed? Ugh. It was much easier Sunday mornings.

I'd love to have a family Mass at our church but nope. Not here. :(

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), April 26, 2002.

Jackiea

I find that ODD, the pastor sould be able to accomodate the parents and the kids. What is going on here sounds like laziness on somebody's part. What is the matter with the Church council. Are they doing anything these cays.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 26, 2002.

Am I the only one? My parish does not have a "children's Mass", but we do have, at the 9:30 and 11:30 Masses, a children's homily...delivered just before the usual homily. Father Larry invites the kids to sit with him on the sanctuary steps to discuss, in a manner through which they can relate, the readings. Then the ones who are enrolled in Sunday School are escorted out to receive further instruction through craftwork. So it would seem, that a children's Mass has happened...would it not?

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), April 26, 2002.

Below is an email I recently sent to som members here. It did not result in a "cure" so I am forced to post it here.

Subj: Fraudulent use of my email address Date: 4/25/2002 4:56:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: CURIOUS To: tosemail1@aol.com, chris48butler@hotmail.com, fcbishop@globaleyes.net, jfgecik@hotmail.com, MattElFeo@netscape.net, spetznaz_chechnya@yahoo.com

Hello, I have recently recieved emails from all of you in reply to items in your religious forum purported to be from Curious@aol.com (Kathy). I have copied one for you to refer to. This person is in no way authorized to use my account. Should your forum have a "chat mode" please advise this person that if she can't use her own email address she should not be near a computer. AOL is not case sensitive therefore any upper and lower case mixture of letters spelling curious@aol.com is read as my address. Please let other members of your forum know this. I also cannot help but wonder about the opinions and values of somebody that would register with a false address.

Richard in Pennsylvania.

Kathy (Curious@aol.com) responded to a message you left in the Catholic bboard:

Subject: Response to EOC, AC, EC, RC and CC

Hi Fred,

My Church is fully accepting of the Nicene Creed. Can you tell me what you mean when you say " wonder where that leaves Mary Mother of God?"

Thanks,

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-- Richard in Pennsylvania (CURIOUS@aol.com), April 27, 2002.

Melissa

You are right. You have seen what is a children's Mass or better yet a part of the Family Mass where the priest spents a few minutes with the kids and gives them a short lesson of what the Sunday message is all about. It is a short homily designed to get their attention and the teach them. You have seen it. The Childrens portion of the Mass as part of the Family Mass.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 27, 2002.

Richard

What is your beef. Did it ever occur to you that Kathy wants to be left alone from people harrassing her by senting Emails to her? That is why you see this. It is common sense to only give your email addy to those who you trust only. So she DOES have the right to protect her privacy. Now is that clear and OK with you?

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 27, 2002.

Richard,

Mateo had notified me already a day or two ago about changing the e- mail address I was using. I did so immediatly. I am sorry for any problems it may have caused you. I did not know it was a "real"address.

Fred pretty much explained why I do not use my real e-mail address.

Again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

-- Kathy (nomail@sorry.com), April 27, 2002.