Wondering what folks here think about Armageddon? And "The Rapture"? D.

-- Donald K. (dkurst@aol.com), April 28, 2002

Answers

I would love to know more about the rapture. Good topic at this time in our world - hope to hear from knowledgeable people on this topic.

Thanks for introducing this thread, Donald. MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), April 28, 2002.

As far as I know, Catholics don't believe in the Rapture.

-- (@ .), April 28, 2002.

Donald,

Here a goood link that describes the Catholic position on "Rapure."

Key text:

"What?s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17-"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur])."

My question to you, Donald, is: Why would a Christian seriously concern himself about the end of times? What effect will it have on our salvation? We will be judged whether we die (physically) alone or with everyone else.

Keep praying,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 28, 2002.

You'll have to define rapture. Some believe in a 'secret rapture' where the Lord will return before the tribulation. Some believe he will return in the middle of the tribulation. Some believe he won't return until after the tribulation.

Catholics believe in the 2nd Coming of Jesus, so if that's what you mean by rapture, then Catholics do believe in the rapture (parousia). It's just that they don't presume to know when that will be.

Jesus says the 2nd Coming will occur "after the tribulation of those days," Matt 25 (I think)

Thessalonians says he won't return "until the man of lawlessness is revealed and AFTER the apostasy" falling away from the faith). Thessalonians also says that the man of lawlessness will "set himself as God in the temple of God, calling himself God," (Many speculations on what that means)

Well, I think we may be in the 'falling away from the faith' period now, with all the so-called Christians who don't adhere to the gospel. Certainly, with all the upheavel in the middle east, one would certainly think it could be soon. But look, people all the way back to the 1st century have thought their's was the generation to see the 2nd coming -- So I guess, we'll just have to get ready and live every day like it's our last! (The Lord himself said He didn't know, the angels don't know, only God the father knows!)

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), April 28, 2002.

Rapture? Is that something a heretic created to draw people to hell or to draw the money out of their pockets. What a joke this is. NO I do not believe in that rubbish. Period.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), April 28, 2002.

Mateo: "My question to you, Donald, is: Why would a Christian seriously concern himself about the end of times? What effect will it have on our salvation? We will be judged whether we die (physically) alone or with everyone else."

It won't have an effect on our individual salvation, but I do it anyway because, well, I just find it really interesting. Its a perfectly valid study, if kept in the proper context.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 28, 2002.

Hi Emerald,

To be sure, I wouldn't question the scholarship this kind of study. I personally never had a big interest in it because it never seemed like a question whose answer could impact my behavior. Either I'm going to love God or I'm not...I love God! :-)

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), April 28, 2002.

No doubt there is a danger in it though; your point is super-well taken here. Mainly, I'm talking about using it as a diversion, shoving aside the real task at hand of getting individually virtuous. And also picking up some warped theological ideas also.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), April 28, 2002.

The Parousia is not the ''rapture''. The term used by some non-Catholics, ''rapture'' is from failure to understand the scriptural TIME of the Parousia, which is the Advent or second coming of Christ. They believe He comes, in a ''Parousia'', before the Last Day, which is the Judgment Day. They believe that the faithful will not even be on earth during the final tribulation, but in glory with Him.

I argued about this with my Plymouth Brethren preacher friend Don, many years ago. The term was in fact first dreamed up by one of the Plymouth sect's founders, a certain Mr. Darby (sp?)-- along the lines of Paul's epistolary description of the last day.

The best I could do to present the Church's true interpretation of the Parousia, was the episode of Lazarus' raising from the tomb by Jesus.

At that time He said to Lazarus' sister Martha: ''Lazarus will rise again.'' To which she humbly replied ''--Yes, Lord; I know that he will rise again ON THE LAST DAY.'' Which is strictly the orthodox teaching. The living and the dead will rise-- but the living (raptured) are to be changed, in the ''twinkling of an eye.''

So-- logically, there can be no interval between the so-called rapture, tribulation, and the Parousia. All are to come on the Last Day; when the earth is to be consumed by fire.
Dies irae, dies illa,
Solvet saeculum in favilla; Lord, have mercy on us!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 28, 2002.