Is anyone else excited about this show? It won't be trashy, but it will have corsets...

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2002

Answers

If it's as well done as "1900 House" it should be pretty good. Of course, the VCR is going to get a workout for the next couple of days since the show will be on opposite Buffy, Smallville and then West Wing. Oof.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2002

This show was so fantastic. I wish there could've been more.

How much do I wish they could clone Nate Brooks and sell him? I'd buy, no matter what the price.

-- Anonymous, May 01, 2002

A great link with answers to all your burning questions:

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp- srv/zforum/02/tv_frontier050102.htm

-- Anonymous, May 01, 2002

After watching the whole series, I have to say I was disappointed.

The producers were not that interested in maintaining historical accuracy. They let the Clunes get away with tons of stuff. They did disspell a myth or two about the west, but it was more about the people then the process and place.

If anything, it was more a study in how people adapt to problems and other people. The Brooks seemed to be the only emotionally honest and well adjusted people there. The Glenns were a mess and The Clunes will do anything to justify doing what they know is wrong.

The kids from both families adapted better to the situation then their parents did and, by the end, seemed to have gained the most from the project.

Well, except maybe Connor.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I saw the first and third episodes, and I pretty much agree with MOC. The Clunes deluded sense of entitlement and Gordon's hissyfit at the end make me wonder if they've ever lost at a competition; if they've always found a way to skirt the rules with bullying and elitism. Also, they need Hildi to get on in their new manse and get to decorating.

I wish there would have been more episodes, and I wish we could have seen them try to survive the winter.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

If the Clunes had been there for the winter, they would have eaten Connor, I'm sure.

Karen is a bad woman. She is self-centered and unyielding. I felt bad for her kids, and bad for Mark, especially when Karen was all, "This is my project, these are my kids. I am the glue that keeps this family together!" And you wonder why Mark felt like he had no place in Frontier Valley? It sounds like Mark and Gordon got along well, which was funny for myself because I know it made Karen nuts.

Okay. The Malubu house? Holy christ.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I ended up loving the Glenn daughter and all The Brooks family, but the rest of them I could have left in the snow.

This was a reality show at best on the level of Survivor and at worst on the level of Road Rules. I was disappointed in PBS for their blatant editing for maximum conflict, and for allowing the families to break rules left and right when the entire thing was supposedly about "living in 1883."

It is unlikely, for example, that Gordon Clune in 1883 would have gone out in the field to thresh hay dressed like Ghandi. Nor would his daughter and niece have been allowed to run around in their filthy nightgowns all day.

That being said, when they did concentrate on the history, I found it very interesting. I especially liked Rawhide, the animal expert. Oh, speaking of that, the death of JoJo Pumpkin nearly took me down. That was a really tough thing - that poor Logan kid... he lost his pig and his new dad in five months.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I liked Erinn Glenn, but you could tell that she had some of her mother's mean streak.

Poor Logan. I could tell that he wanted to R-U-N-N-O-F-T with his chicken, too. And there was Karen with her madwoman smile, "Well, Logan, that's life on a far-um. It's the cycle of li-yuf. It's really beautiful, to thi-yunk about i-yut!" (Can you tell that the way Karen talked made me nuts?). Poor JoJo Pumpkin, indeed. Although I imagine that when Mark did her in, it wasn't JoJo's face that he saw.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

Oh Lord, T. You make me laugh.

I think Karen was much more competitive than her husband, and he probably had no idea she would be so focused on winning. I felt a little bad for her, since her efforts to become friends with the other people didn't work. I think after she determined that the Clunes didn't want to take an interest in her, she had to find something new to focus on and went overboard.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

Karen definitely had something happen in her life that has made her think her value as a person is wrapped up in, not only succeeding, but doing so by beating other people. She reminds of the Simpsons episode where the teachers went on strike and Lisa was screaming to Marge, "Evaluate me! Rank me! Grade me! Judge me! Please!!!"

As far as her people being from "heartier stock" because she's from Tennessee, I didn't know Tennessee bread heartier soccer moms then California did. But she does love her kids.

Those poor Clune boys. They are going to grow up learning that no rules apply to them and when life gets hard cheat to make it easier.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

In those clips from the first episode, Karen looked like she was a frightening soccer coach.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I remember seeing that clip and thinking she seemed a bit competitive.

I want to move to Nashville now so I can run into the Glenns.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I'd like to see the Osbournes in the next Frontier House. Wacka-wacka- doo.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I would not want to run into Mark, though - in his last clip, he was sounding about one step away from moving back to Montana, creepy style.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I was really hoping that the frontier police would bust Gordon for his illegal moonshine, and that he could find out what it was like to spend the night (or two) in jail circa 1883.

I do wish there'd been more emphasis on the coping-with-1883 and less on the infighting.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

Gordon was pretty frightening during his Cheating Justification Hissyfit, going on about The American Way and balling his fists and his eyes barely staying in the sockets. And then throwing the final report across the room when the judges surmised they wouldn't make it. I get the feeling he'd like to drag the whole family back there just to prove that they would have survived.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

What was the thing with hunting for Gordon? He was obsessed with the fact that they couldn't hunt and seemed to think, at the end, that they could of survived if only they had a little elk in the root cellar for winter, completely ignoring the fact that he would have had no firewood to cook it and that he would have no time to hunt. Didn't he just spend every waking moment for 5 months running the homestead? They had free time to hunt when?

I wish they would have busted him for any number of things. The serious and very unhistorical lack of clothing, the box spring, the trading with the locals, etc.

And the still. I really upset with the producers of the show that, after making a big deal about how the Clunes had to get out of debt using only 1883 methods, they then turned around and let him bring in a machine that he didn't build himself and used modern methods and machinery. Not to mention the fact, if they couldn't hunt why can he make moonshine? Does Montana have a state law that says you can't hunt out of season but you can brew your own whisky to sell to the locals?

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

Man, I couldn't stand Gordon. If I had to be stuck on the homestead with him or Karen, I'd definitely choose Karen. I know she was crazy, but I think he was FAR more crazy. He made a big deal out of her being so "competitive," when he was worse. He so wanted to succeed on the frontier, that he broke all the rules, stepping out of his authentic 1883 lifestyle to do it. The boxspring, the still, the trading with Explorer-driving locals. It was all part of his competitive desire to "win." If they had stayed the winter, he would have totally figured out a way to take his kids to Burger King, and he would have been all "Well, in 1883, a father would definitely take his kids to get a Whopper!" I loved how he was such a frontier expert - every statement he made was so black and white, when he clearly knew nothing about history or Montana or any of it. And, as the MOC says, his hunting obsession was truly frightening.

And that thing at the end with the family Bible? How much did he love being on camera wearing that stupid get-up with the spectacles and the string tie? Like he was whats-his-name the preacher from Little House?

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I couldn't get over the boxspring. Of course, I also couldn't get over Karen smoking her PIPE.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I'm shocked that Gordon didn't give the boxspring to the girls. But, then again, he did send the kids out in a snowstorm with no clothes to milk a cow while he stayed inside by the fire.

I also caught Tracy, the Clune cousin, with a pipe. I wonder if he let her drink the moonshine as well? I can just see him. "Well, they didn't have laws against 15 year olds drinking and smoking in 1883. Toke up on that pipe there, Tracy, it makes the moonshine go down easier."

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

He'd take the train to Butte! They have a Wal-Mart and an Applebees there. And by gumb, if Wal-Mart and Applebees had been there in 1883, the people would have patronized those businesses too!

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

Nor would his daughter and niece have been allowed to run around in their filthy nightgowns all day.

Except, the lovely narrator did say that it was teenage girls who often broke social codes, including those dictating proper dress. My aunts, who were all born a very small step out of the homesteading lifestyle, ran around like that until high school. Some of the time. And I don't blame them. Who wants to bail hay in a corset? But Tracey and Aina both looked really cute when they did wear them, with their braids and little hats. Aina also really picked up on the guitar.

And I don't know why but the Clunes actions don't really bother me. They found the box spring by scavaging, which justifies it to me. The moonshine is a little different, but only because of HOW he got the still, not because he was brewing it.

You can tell the editors loved the Hatclunes and McGlenn fight: did you notice how they showed the Clunes' massive carrots juxtaposed right over the Glenns' puny ones? Also they faded out the massive Malibu house and brought the image of the Glenns' modest TN home in on top of it.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

The box spring thing was wrong, as well. They knew it was wrong or wouldn't have tried hiding it. The point of the series was to recreate life as accurately as possible, no matter how hard (short of starving), and they consistently fought that because it was too difficult.

Basically, it didn't meet their idea of what it was going to be like so they decided to participate under their own rules and then spent probably hours of camera time trying to justify what they knew was wrong.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I'm still smarting over missing episode one...

Last night, I thought it was very telling when Karen Glenn was talking about wanting to be, for once, the prettiest girl (or most popular or something, can't remember exactly). I felt just terrible for the Glenn kids, because as lonely as their mother was, it must have hurt them to know that there were potential friends just right up the road, but those kids didn't need them as friends. The Clune girls and boys had one another.

Killing the chicken was bad enough, but when they killed the pig, I wanted to wring the parent's neck. Those children had no friends and spent all day caring for and playing with those animals - and considering the tempers flaring between their mom and new daddy, I'm sure they were looking for some sort of stable affection (ha, I'm punny). To shoot the pig right in front of the child was just cruel, I don't care how frontierly true it was.

When that man said he just didn't like being a step father, I can't believe the camera person was able to keep from muttering "dickhead".

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I also felt bad for Karen when her troll of a mother showed up and said she didn't think that the family was going to do very well, and didn't seem impressed at all by what had been accomplished. Karen kept trying to show off all the great things she's done and her mother was as stoic as a turnip.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

With all the time the Glenn boy spent with the PS2 I think it was probably a good thing for him to see the pig get killed. Death causes all types of pain, its not entertainment.

By the end he was eating the quiche with the pork in it, so he must have come to terms with it.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

My heart really goes out to poor Logan. It was creepy when he was practically spouting verbatim what his mother said about killing JoJo Pumpkin.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

Chris, I eat meat, but if someone shot my cow in front of me, all the logic in the world wouldn't stop my heart from breaking. Especially at 9 years old.

Everything about those two kids just made my heart hurt. Their new daddy hates them, their mom is a lunatic, their neighbors won't play with them. Plus, he got a visit from old grandma for a birthday present. Something tells me that was more of a gift for Crazy Mom than for the Birthday Boy.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

With all the time the Glenn boy spent with the PS2 I think it was probably a good thing for him to see the pig get killed. Death causes all types of pain, its not entertainment.

Now, MOC, I know your sturdy mind does not normally make such facile arguments. It's almost like saying that if you play a lot of Frogger then it'll probably be good for you to see a pet run over.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

I am a little ticked that I didn't get to see anything but the last episode, but I did enjoy it...

I, quite frankly, am amazed at these people. It isn't like I grew up in a tiny cabin in Montana...but I did grow up in a quite small house in Idaho with a woodstove and it shocked me just how much firewood these people thought would keep them warm through the winter! Insanity. The box spring was quite a stupid thing to even have in the house. I am willing to bet the ropes would have been more comfy than that rickety thing anyway. The house in Malibu was insane. Those girls sitting in the hot tub talking about how boring everything is...they looked like they were doin aight! Bah.

Anyway. Good show.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

They should have renamed the series "Real World: Frontier House." Or, as someone said on the PBS forum, "Survivor: Frontier Valley - Outwit, Outlast, Outmoan." Heh. I agree with the folks who wanted to see more of 1883 life and less of the family bickering. Yes, how the families reacted to their situation was part of the experiment, but I found the actual 1883 setting and chores, etc. to be the truly interesting part of the show. I wanted to know more about what the women did for instance. We saw Adrienne and Karen churning butter but that's all - how did that work? How long did it take? How did they store it? Of course, the show couldn't go into reams of info, but still it seemed to skip over a lot of stuff. I adored the Brooks family, and I want to know if Nate's brother is married! Very cute...

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2002

You caught me, WG. I believe I was taking out past frustrations on poor Logan.

I have had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with people who have strong desires to "get back to nature" and "live off the land". They were, and still are, good people, but I think their political beliefs got in the way of being realistic about what living off the land means. They were all meat eaters, and when I asked them what they would do for meat, I never heard the word "hunt" or "kill". I did hear country ham and beef jerky a lot.

I don't see it as a bad thing to kill what you eat. Do we need to do it? Absolutely not. But that doesn't make it a bad thing. Now, I'm not advocating hanging out with the NRA or Ted Nugent, those folks are, by and large, just as politically motivated in their attitudes towards hunting and killing animals are liberals are. But I am saying that I think it is a bit hypocritical to chomp down on a Big Mac or rack of ribs and then criticize a parent for having their children understand and experience where that food came from.

And kids tend to be more emotionally resilient than we give them credit for.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

I think it's pretty heartless to let a mushy suburban kid get really attached to a farm animal, and then slaughter it right in front of him. Farm kids in 1883 would have grown up seeing chickens get slaughtered. They would have known not to get attached to a chicken, and they wouldn't have been shocked to see it happen. I agree we should all have to face where our meat comes from, but his parents were needlessly cruel about it.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

Well, I don't think he should have had to watch them kill the pig. But his parents might have made it more clear to him from the beginning what was going to happen to it. Letting him name the animal, for example, may not have been the best idea.

If I had been Logan's mom in that situation, I think I would have taken him inside while it was happening and explain to him the need for it. The long, drawn-out dramatic scene they did was unnecessary.

The thing about it, though, was that it may have been the most realistic moment of the entire series. People on those small farms raised their food in 1883. They did. They did not have the option of running over to the Kroger deli and buying a ham. Neither did the Glenns.

Allowing him to stand there and watch the pig get shot and butchered, though, was another thing altogether. But, you know, things die. People and pets and stuff - they die. I'm not trying to be all stoic about it, but learning to deal with the grief of death is a healthy thing, because we all have to deal with it on some level eventually.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

Kids, don't name cows.

Did anyone ever read A Day No Pigs Would Die for junior high English?

On another note -- we get all ashamed for watching Temptation Island and such, but at least there the producers, when they found out one of the couples had a kid, tried to stick to the we're- not-in-the-business-of-separating-parents rule. Here we had a marriage break up (as best I can tell from people's comments, since I didn't see the last eps) because the people were in the environment created by the show. Now, I don't think the Glenn kids have the right to sue PBS or anything like that, but as a viewer who presumably wants drama (and was completely rooting for at least three of the four TI2 couples to break up), I feel a little squicky for having watched.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

Oh, those people were WELL on the road to divorce before the "project." If anything, that was the perfect enviornment for them to save their marriage, but they were both too pig-headed and either mean or passive-aggresive to bother.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

In all fairness to Karen, she did tell Logan the day they got the pig not to get to attached to it, because they were going to kill it. It wasn't like she told him that he had a new pet, she forewarned him.

And The Glenns did say that the show just sped up what was already happening to their marriage.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

Is it obvious I didn't see that part of the show? The chicken trauma was told to me by an (apparently unreliable) third party. Whether it's a pig or a chicken, though, I still think it's mean to slaughter an animal in front of your kid if he's grown attached to it.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

I saw an "encore performance" (read: repeat) of an Oprah show where she talked about the series and had the five adults as guests (no Mark Glenn). Adrienne and Karen seemed comfortable with each other, and Adrienne actually put the dramatics in perspective. She pointed out that everyone was mentally and physically exhausted, often sleep deprived, extremely isolated, and without any means of "escape" whether physical or mental, when things got hairy. She said that a lot of what happened between the families was caused by this. Of course, the Glenn and Clune families had/have problems even in their 21st-century lives, but the pressure cooker of the Frontier House setting made everything that much worse.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2002

I finally saw the first hour today, and y'all, poor Conor Clune. First, he gets thrown off a wagon, then he loses his worm, WITHOUT getting a bite, and then, to top it all off, he gets attacked by a "vithouth dog." It was the worst day of his LIFE.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

That whole episode with the runaway horses and the wagon crashing really freaked me out when I saw it. The kid and driver very nearly died! And the homesteaders had barely set out. Wow. I don't blame Connor at all for saying that was the worst day of his life, even before the fishing and the dog biting him.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002

I kind of liked Karen Glenn - she reminds me of my mom. Not that my mom is psycho, but she's sort of hard like that. I don't think she would have killed my pig though.

Other than the lack-of-toilet-paper thing (anyone know what they actually did?), I can't imagine complaining over it. It seemed like they could bathe when they REALLY wanted to. I think I would have liked to have done it...but then, I've washed entire loads of laundry by hand and I like doing the dishes. They seemed like they picked, other than the Mr. Fiance-Man, people not well-suited for the "adventure."

Sidenote: Mrs. Clune's baked goods looked pretty damn good.

-- Anonymous, May 05, 2002