Do societies like the Lions International, Rotary Clubs, Shriners, High Cedars of Lebanon, KIWANIS, etc. have anything to do with Francmasonry? If so do they have access to masonic degrees, to what degrees?

Thank you for your answers.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), May 02, 2002

Answers

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-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), May 02, 2002.

The Shriners ARE the Masons. The Cedars of Lebanon? I have no Idea. The rest may have a small tie in to the Masons in some form but not directly. The Masonic Lodges have made many attempts in recent years to decieve the public by changing their names to other forms to hide their real identities. To belong to any of these Masonic groups is forbidden by Canon Law of the Church and has also been written by several Popes in the past. There is a recent letter by Cardinal Law specifically banning Catholics from the Masonic lodges and He uses the Canon Law to back him up. He wrote the letter to clarify the Canon as it was rewritten in recent times to specify ALL groups that do not recognize the Deity of the Triune God.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 02, 2002.

The Tall Cedars of Lebanon ARE in fact an organization of the Masons. The High Cedars is a Cedar Forest on Lebanon. There is a distinct difference.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 02, 2002.

Hi, Enrique.
One of the founders of the Lions International was a freemason named Melvin Jones. However, I have never seen any indication that Lions are anti-Catholic or even religious in any way.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

I was asked by the local Masons lodge to give a lecture in my area of specialty, which I did this evening. I kind of expected to see a bunch of guys running around in red or black robes waving goats' heads around, but at least here it was mainly *old* guys who couldn't stop talking about their charity work.

I'm not arguing about their past, and as a Catholic wouldn't join them, but don't think that these guys were too interested in overthrowing the church (at least I didn't get assaulted saying grace before dinner!)

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 02, 2002.

As I have been told, perhaps in error, the aim of freemasonry is to destroy the Catholic Church, and to do so from within. Any info, anyone, to support or contradict?

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), May 02, 2002.

Melissa

The original beginnings of the Masons did in fact try to drown the Catholic Church through control of the building of Churches and other structures and their intent later on was to replace the Catholic religion with their own. If you take the time and read on it you will find much information on the Masons in the World Wide Web sources. It is forbidden for any Catholic to belong to the Masons as it is an excomunicatable offense and denial of GOD. Many Popes have written on the evils of Freemasonry and Cardinal Law has also written about this too. He wrote to explain the changes made to the Canon Law forbidding Catholics to join organizations of the type Masons are.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 03, 2002.

The FRANCMASONRY is the Mediterranean area's form of Free Masonry. It is also forbidden by the Catholic Church.

Frank

I would never as a Catholic set one foot in a Mason's lodge building even if they paid me a lrge sum of money. The harm that they have done to our church rivals the harm done to our church today by the "Free" press. As a member of the K of C it is forbidden.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 03, 2002.

In my understanding, most of your "everyday" Masons don't realize that at the highest levels, there is still antiCatholicism. Most Masons don't get up these highest levels, and don't swear the vows at these levels. There are all kinds of good books out there, one of the best from a Catholic view being Paul Fisher's "Behind the Lodge Door."

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), May 03, 2002.

Christina

It is NOT only anti-Catolicism. The Masonic Lodge is totally anti- Christ. The creed of the Masonic Lodge clearly denies the God-head in it's entirety. Absolutely no one should belong to this group of anti- God group. If you ever saw their Degree creeds you would understand. I have fought with some of my own K of C members over their involvement with the Masons in the past. They do not belong to them but join with them on other ventures. It roils me to see this inate blindness. Would you believe they have found a way to attract the Jews which is one of the things Fr Maximillian Kolbe fought against in Poland. He is well remembered for his stance against the Masons.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 03, 2002.

Fred,

Actually, I was doing for *no* money as part of a "charity outreach", if that makes a difference to you. Every one of us needs some help some time. I'm NOT saying one should accept their beliefs or practices, but one shouldn't turn their back on someone as a person, either (at least that's what Christianity means to me).

Christina,

Actually, one old guy asked me something about "millenial extra- magnatism" or something like that, but I just wrote it off as I hear a lot of strange stuff. Definitely no one tried to foist their creed on me.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 03, 2002.

Frank

I sometimes wonder if much of the money ever gets to the charities. I have seen some of the Temples they have here in Illinois. Let me tell you they do RIVAL some of the grandest of Cathedrals in our Church. I belong to the K of C and they do not have such structures anywhere. Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 03, 2002.

Melissa, you have been told rightly, which is why I would recommend against Catholics having anything to do with the Masons as a group.
Frank, there is no question that they participate in admirable charity work, but we can get involved in that same good works without doing things that have at least the appearance of endorsing their existence (such as taking part in their meetings). In my opinion, it is similar to, though a much lesser evil than, taking part in a Ku Klux Klan meeting. Rather than help them out and seem to make their organization look legitimate, we ought instead to hope that the very institution of Freemasonry should cease to exist.

In contrast to the negative action and attitude that I encourage us to take toward organized Freemasonry, I encourage private contact with individual Masons, on whose lives we may have a beneficial effect, possibly leading to their conversion.

Most Catholics are aware of the Vatican documents condemning Freemasonry and prohibiting Catholics to become members. Here are a few additional thoughts from theologian Colin Donovan of EWTN, which illustrate the serious nature of this problem:

"As the declaration of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on Masonry says, no Catholic may be a Mason. By grave sin the Church means that to continue as a Mason in contempt of this decision of the Supreme Pontiff, Pope John Paul II, is grave matter, which together with knowledge of that fact and free choice makes for mortal sin. Such a person would be unable to receive Holy Communion until such time as he renounced Masonry and went to Confession. You will also notice that the statement of Cardinal Ratzinger says that the local priest or even a bishop has no authority to change this.

"Someone who was not aware of these facts would, of course, not be guilty of mortal sin. However, once a Catholic is aware of the Church's position, he is obliged to follow it. From that point forward, to disregard the judgment of the Church would be, as the Congregation declares, seriously wrong. "Some have tried to say that American Masonry is different from European Masonry, which has a history of plotting against the government and the Church. The basic problem with all Masonry, however, is that it is a society which fosters a religious-philosophical attitude of indifference to religious truth, even substituting its own naturalistic dogma and rituals for those of Christianity. Such indifference is incompatible with belief in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation. We may not 'play-act' in the lodge of the Great Architect on Thursday night, then worship 'in spirit and in truth' on Sunday morning at the altar of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the unique Lord and Redeemer of the Universe, the Word-made-flesh who reveals the Father, and who together with the Father sends the Holy Spirit. The Creed and the Masonic oath are irreconcilable!

"Masonry is not the Jaycees, in which people of all religions and philosophies come together to work on local business problems. Masonry has its own religious and philosophical worldview, its own religious language, its rituals and its morality. In the library of every lodge you will find Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma. A top American Mason, he is the greatest writer on the real meaning behind Masonic beliefs and rituals. Even the title of his book shows that Masonry has a morality and a doctrine. If they are not Catholic morality and Catholic doctrine, and in fact they aren't even Christian, a Catholic or any Christian may not follow them. This is why, since the 1700s the popes have consistently rejected Freemasonry as incompatible with the faith. The motives and works of most masons may be good and benign, but this does not change the choice which the Catholic has to make between the religious philosophy of masonry and that of Catholicism."

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 04, 2002.

Francmasonry is supposedly a SECRET Society, So, how is it that we know su much about their Philosophy and doings? As a Catholic how can I know that a certain group or society is Mason-oriented? Are there some external signs which will allow me to recognise that a person or group of persons are of Masonic leanings?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), May 04, 2002.

Enrigue

Simple, if it is secret then don't even consider belonging to it. It is the secrecy that makes the Mason's unique. The oaths they take are against GOD and Church and they must be avoided.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 04, 2002.

John Your Statement to Frank:

Frank, there is no question that they participate in admirable charity work, but we can get involved in that same good works without doing things that have at least the appearance of endorsing their existence (such as taking part in their meetings). In my opinion, it is similar to, though a much lesser evil than, taking part in a Ku Klux Klan meeting. Rather than help them out and seem to make their organization look legitimate, we ought instead to hope that the very institution of Freemasonry should cease to exist.

I want to thank you for saying this. It has been my opiniontoo for a long time as I understand the rules of the Church and the K of C. My former council members have also been on a yearly basis joined the Masons at their Lodge for a dinner meal. I have protested this as being a sinful act on their part in yeilding to them in this manner. To this day I have been unsuccessful. It is your opnion that I needed to confirm my views on this. This I am thankful to you for. Now I will consider the next stepin contacting the Supreme that these things are happening.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 04, 2002.

What is actually francmasonary? In my opinion francmasonary is a group that wants to rule the world. Or maybe not? I don't really know but if I remember well in that magasine that I have read,it said something about them ruling the world. I remember about the banknote of 1 dollar. First it is the pyramid with the eye in the top and there is the eagle.I'm sorry but I can't remember all the details.

-- Purcarin Elena (papushjik@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.