I realized that we never see anything on the M5 in this forum and that it is a camera I know nothing about, at all. Are there any M5 users out there? Are some of you also M4/M6/M7/M2/M3 users? What is the M5 like to use? How does it handle? Does it handle better with some of Leicas large lenses such as the 75/1.4? What is the viewfinder like?

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), May 07, 2002

Answers

Mani, I don't use an M5 ( I use an M3 ) but I'm told by Sherry Krauter that it is the best user M camera. It certainly has the best metering system. I am hoping to acquire one. If you want one you should seek out one with a serial number of greater than 134....

Regards,

Tony Salce

-- Tony Salce (NadinaTony@bigpond.com), May 07, 2002.

I used an M5 a couple of years ago and really liked the camera. A very good lightmeter, very good viewfinder, 35, 50, 90 & 135mm frames. Much better than the M 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6. Wonderfully crafted, a dream to use and to have.

Frank

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2002.

I had an M5,

I rate it the best all mechanical manual camera I ever had...

Finder magnification is 0.72 and will properly focus any Leica lens.

The only bad point about it is the collectors recently re-discovered it and the price are high ($ 1000 is the minimum here) and the mint cameras fewer and fewer on the market (at least in France).

Mine died of a broken shutter roller bearing: economically impossible to repair (cost as much a mint second hand body)...

I sorely miss it because I litterally loved that camera but after trying a brand new Hexar RF and considering the delays to find another M5 in mint conditions, I bought the Hexar RF instead.

Functionally, my choice was validated by experience as only the Noctilux and the f/1.4 75 mm Summilux seem to be tricky to use fully open on the Hexar RF and with some use even the 135 mm frame in the Hexar is not a liability. At least the Hexar RF has a guarantee.

But if you can find a mint M5, do not hesitate too much to buy it, you won't regret your money.

Friendly

François P. WEILL

-- François P. WEILL (frpawe@wanadoo.fr), May 07, 2002.

Hello Mani,

I own a black 3-lug M5 since 1976. After I got the M6 ten years later I prefered the newer camera for my day to day shooting. But used the M5 with much delight occasionally however. Although still working alright IMO I sent it in last October for the M-camera-check to LEICA AG.

They found something wrong with the M5 shutter and wanted to replace the curtains and do an CLA for EUR 800,00 altogether. Puh ...

I had it delivered back unchanged (at no cost to me) and it still goes strong. Will have it done only when it is really down. But the good thing was: they cleaned the v/f, aligned the rangefinder and it worked much smoother than before. There was a tiny CLA done for free. Thank you LEICA AG.

Should you decide to get one: it´s a great camera and should be more than just a back up. CLA prices are somewhat higher than with the normal LEICA M. So be craful what you buy.

The battery issue is also to consider of course. PX625s are out. There are alternatives however.

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), May 07, 2002.

Hello Mani,

I own a black 3-lug M5 since 1976. After I got the M6 ten years later I prefered the newer camera for my day to day shooting. But used the M5 with much delight occasionally however. Although still working alright IMO I sent it in last October for the M-camera-check to LEICA AG.

They found something wrong with the M5 shutter and wanted to replace the curtains and do an CLA for EUR 800,00 altogether. Puh ...

I had it delivered back unchanged (at no cost to me) and it still goes strong. Will have it done only when it is really down. But the good thing was: they cleaned the v/f, aligned the rangefinder and it worked much smoother than before. There was a tiny CLA done for free. Thank you LEICA AG.

Should you decide to get one: it´s a great camera and should be more than just a back up. CLA prices are somewhat higher than with the normal LEICA M. So be craful what you buy.

The battery issue is also to consider of course. PX625s are out. There are alternatives however.

To your last remark: yes, the bigger lenses handle somehow better with the M5. The Tele-Elmar and the 75 mm LUX I have match the body size somehow better than the smaller LEICA Ms.

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), May 07, 2002.

I purchased a M-5 on a dealer special back in 1973 when I was working in a camera shop. It was my most used Leica body until a month ago when I picked up the Hexar RF. Now I have two "brick" looking camera bodies, if you can find a M-5 at a reasonable price I would say pick it up. I love the meter and the shutter speed dial that overhangs the ft of the camera, really makes it easy to use....

wbill

-- wbill (wbill@bellatlantic.net), May 07, 2002.

Just a few more tidbits about the M5 - one of the few M's to have shutter speeds visible in the finder, and very convenient to change with the 'lip' on the front...balances very well with some of the larger lenses like the Summilux 50 and 75 (tho' no frameline). However, you may not meter wide open with the Noctilux f/1. The reading will be inaccurate. Apparently the design was not out yet, and the wide aperture throws off the meter cell. All you need to do is stop down to 1.4 and re-meter. I would assume the 1.2 Noctilux would be fine as it was out at the same time as the M5, but those lenses are a little more than hard to come by...

Do get one over 134xxxx..Sherry says the early ones are 'weak' and there were some design tweaks that helped the reliability of the camera. Despite its being metal and glass and plastic, I too love this camera and wouldn't sell mine (chrome one)! Some of you would freak if using it next to the classic M's...it needs to be taken on its own terms, a very different beast, but worth the effort.

-- Carlin (carlinm@abac.com), May 07, 2002.

Here is a comparison of the M5 and the M6 which I posted last year I used them side by side for about six years and finally settled on the M5. A lot of it has to do with personal shooting style. I like to work in the aperture priority mode on my M’s, i.e., choose the f-stop and depth of field ( if I’m just walking around), and then use the meter to set the shutter speed. This is harder to do with the M6 since the meter doesn’t work when the shutter is set at intermediate stops. I also like to know what my settings are. With the M5, I choose the f-stop and I SEE the shutter speed in the viewfinder (except under EXTREMELY low light levels). Having the meter needles cross on a line is very quick and sure. Moreover, the overhanging meter dial can be moved very easily with your shutter release find. With the M6, it takes a while to balance the two red arrows although there are tricks which can make it very fast, and you only know your setting by removing your eye from the finder (similar annoyance with my classic Hexar). I’ve never used the M6 TTL with the middle stripe to tell you when you are right on. Some people find the bright arrows on the M6 distracting in low light and they can sometimes be very hard to see in very bright light. The M5 has a narrower angle meter than the M6 and it is easier to know exactly what you are metering. Ever since I acquired behind the lens metering, I also acquired the bad habit of metering every shot. the M5 is quicker for this. The M5 has the old style frameline, which are much better than the M6, but maybe not so critical if you don’t go longer than the 50. There is a much better way to load the M5 than the way Leica describes (which often leads to misloading). If you get the camera , write and I will describe it to you. The M5 feels larger in the hand than the M6 (it only weighs 3 ounces more) and some like or love it and others hate it. Before deciding, try an M5 . If the M6 had the M5 metering and overhanging shutter dial, I would give up the M5 in a shot. I love the feel of the classic M2,3,4. The M5 uses the old mercury batteries. I still have a supply for myself. I also have the MR? adapter which, is a tiny voltage regulator, thy lets you put a 76 battery inside it and cuts the power to 1.35 volts (costs about $30). Leica says that the Wien battery is better, but the adapter seems to work fine. Maybe it’s more critical with slow slide film (which I not longer use). On a two week trip to Japan, I used the M5 and M6 on alternate days and saw no difference in the results, but the M5 was handling was preferable.

I should add that I have used the Hexar RF and just got a Bessa R2, which because of its light weight and bright viewfinder may end up as my primary M mounr camera.

-- jay goldman (jrgoldman@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.

I sold my M5 because the meter was too eratic for Kodachrome. Also, the truncated shape didn't quite "feel" right. I believe that if used with one of the current body grips it would be the most ergonomic Leica of all. I loved the shutter speed dial location and speed visible in the finder. Bring it back with the current metering system and I'd buy one tomorrow -- no, make that today!

-- Bill (bmitch@comcast.net), May 07, 2002.

There have been some discussiona on the topic not too long ago on this forum as I remembered. But I think Jay summarized the comparison between the M6 and M5 very well in the above post. I have used the M5 for more than two years I think it is a wonderful user. But if you decided to try one, use it alone for a trip or an outing and don’t mix it with the M6 as they are very different. The shutter mechanism on the M5 is also different and it is quieter compared with classic M’s. It is a pity the M5 has been collectors’ item rather than users’.

-- Cing-Dao Kan (cdkan@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.

I forgot to add that the viewfinder of my M5 was modified by Sherry K with the 75 frame line. I use the Summilux 75 on the M5 almost exclusively. The larger M lenses are balanced much better on M5. The meter on the M5 is true spot meter and very sensitive.

-- Cing-Dao Kan (cdkan@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.

Thank you, one and all :-)

I just thought I'd help build up a little database here on this forum about these obviously well built, gorgeously well handling M cameras, which always get short shrift by reason of comparision to the other Ms.

IMHO, on their own terms, these cameras handled very well in the shop. Maybe someday...

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), May 07, 2002.

For some inexplicable reasons, I developed an itch to get a M5 as a working camera, and I bought a 2-lug silver chrome version (a 1974 production model, according to its serial number) from London late last year through a friend, and it was barely working when it arrived. I took it to my regular camera repairer in Hong Kong, who told me, "I hope you're not thinking of buying it." (Too late, I already have at that point, but I didn't have the heart to tell him.) As he explained, the shutter and rangefinder mechanisms needed repair or replacing, and the camera had to be sent to Leica for such work, which would be expensive.

So the camera went to the Schmidt Photo (excellent service--ask for the wonderful Ms. Cherry Chung!), the local Leica agent, which sent it back to Germany for repair (carried out by a Mr. Wagner and his team at Leica, as I understand). Four months later, it came back, and WOW, it was practically a new camera incorporating parts from the M6: the leatherite, viewfinder frames including the one for 28mm, the rubber-padded eyepiece, etc. The Leica folks even added a third lug and had the tiny blisters on the top-plate removed (how did they do that--re-chromed the camera??). The most expensive item was replacement for the shutter mechanism. Total repair cost: close to US$900! (Had to take a long deep breath when I saw the quotation.)

In use, the large size of the camera (which I always thought resembles a '70s era transistor radio!) that put off so many Leica users actually enhances its "holdability"--even better than that of the M3/4/6, in my opinion. The shutter is smooth and quiet, as expected, but my local camera repairer told me something interesting about using the 1/1000 shutter speed. What happens is that, as he explained, the metering arm doesn't swing out of the way fast enough at that shutter speed, and it will leave a residue image that may be apparent on pictures with lots of white (I don't know how true this is--any idea out there?). The metering, by means of adjusting the shutter-speed and aperture to make the two slanting needles appearing at the bottom of the viewfinder meet, is more convenient than I first thought it would be. Overall, I think a lots of thoughts had been put into the camera's ergonomics and handling, and I find it handles significantly better than that of the M3/4/6. For example, the slightly overhanging shutter-speed dial makes it easy to change shutter speed without removing one's eye from the viewfinder; the film-rewind crank at the base (a la the CLE) is more convenient that the top-side crank for the M4/6 (I have to remove the double- accessory shoe when I rewind film on my M4-P); and having both the shutter-speed and aperture info appear in the viewfinder certainly helps one to focus on picture-taking instead of being distracted by having to remove eye from the viewfinder to check settings. Film loading seems easier on the M5 than the M4/6, probably because of the design of the removable base-plate and the larger camera size.

Verdict: as fine a camera the M5 is, good value for money it certainly is not (as with all Leica cameras, come to think of it!). The camera is not cheap to begin with, and given the age of the camera (the last M5 came out of the Leica factory almost 30 years ago) and its mechanical complexity, you'll be very lucky if you manage to find a reasonably-priced M5 that needs no more than a simple CLA. Having said that, I must say the M5 is an enjoyable camera to use, and a very stable and user-friendly one, too. But the camera's aesthetics and functional idiosyncrasies is such that it probably makes one either wholeheartedly like it or dislike it.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), May 08, 2002.

Hello Hoyin,

thank you for the report on your M5. I´am glad you also appreciate this wonderful camera. I hope messages like this do not drive up the prize of the M5 for too much ...

Used my M5 lots of times at 1/ 1000 sec. Never saw the shaddow thing you where told about. So be confident.

Best regards

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), May 08, 2002.

Thanks K. G., it certainly is reassuring to hear it from a long-time M5 user. Cheers, Hoyin

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), May 08, 2002.

Hoyin

I don't think the 1/1000 issue is real. When you depress the shutter on the M5 I think the meter arm retracts - then the shutter fires. So I think you must meter with your finger off the shutter release. I agree with you that the M5 is a gem - I like its larger size as I have large hands. In times past they used to say it was the "r/f for SLR users".

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), May 08, 2002.

For those who own an M5, I strongly recommend Tom Abrahamsson's soft release.

www.rapidwinder.com

It makes the shutter release soft , smooth and quick.

By the way, I have owned many M5's over the years since the first one came out and I never heard of or experienced any problem at 1/1000. jay g

-- jay goldman (jrgoldman@yahoo.com), May 08, 2002.

Thanks Robin and Jay for the info. By the way, Jay, does the Nikon soft release work well wtih the M5? Because I'm in Hong Kong, it's easier and cheaper for me to get a Nikon soft release than mail-order from Tom Abrahamson.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), May 09, 2002.

Hoyin, I don't know anything about the Nikon soft release.

-- jay goldman (jrgoldman9@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.

I'm so glad to see all this attention to the M5!!!! I had assumed that the M5 was the bastard child of the Leica family till all the positive responses I've just read. I love mine and wouldn't give it up for anything. Well almost anything. I love the way it meters-just dead on. The changing of shutter speeds om the fly is great also. I have been horsing around with the Voigtlander 21mm and having a ball with it. I wholeheartedly recommend it.

-- Michael Pry (vila@busynet.net), May 10, 2002.

Update: the Nikon soft release works wonderfully well on my M5 and M4P. A friend, on seeing how well it worked on Leicas, quickly bought one for her Bessa T. Price: HK$35 (about US$4.50) at Wing Shing.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), June 05, 2002.