For twenty years or so, Americans have taught their kids to be wary of authority. That's why there are so many charges of abuse in America these days.

Where else but America could this scandal break? We've taught the kids to snitch. We Americans love news leaks, love scandal stories. We must have 10,000 reporters looking for cover-ups to make into headlines.

But has this scandal been going on longer? How much longer? Centuries? Has it been going on in other societies? Adam & Eve attempted the first cover-up, but isn't there something in each of us that whispers, "No one must ever know."?

This American scandal story couldn't have become public in the 1920's. Could this scandal story have rise to the surface in Europe or Latin America in at all?

Maybe this has gone on everywhere, always. Maybe it's only that Americans can now sue for damages and have public revenge that the story happened to break here and now.

In truth, this scandal doesn't have much to do with the Catholic Church at all. It has everything to do with 'who's watching the kids'. English boarding schools were notorious for this kind of faggotry. Arab societies have a bigger problem. The more I learn about the Nazis, the more it looks like the creeps were all over the boys in the Hitler youth. Big Brothers, scoutmasters, coaches; anybody who doesn't find kids annoying ought to be watched.

-- Mike Hunt (mikehunt@hotmail.com), May 10, 2002

Answers

Hitler was a closet Homosexial. At least that's what sciencetist say.

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), May 10, 2002.

I agree. I've written here that I never trusted my kids with a priest but I didn't have a good feeling about men who had become junior high school teachers either - my kid's principle had the same name as a sexed up little kid in the neighborhood where I grew up. But I digress.

This scandal will probably grow and grow worldwide, not because of anything peculiar about the Church, but because priests have had the ability to get away with a lot. In Ireland, it was the Church who handled the social programs, it was the priests that had authority and when sex abuse became common knowledge the Church got the blame. Now we have to import priests

-- Bob Hennessy (bobhenn@hotmail.cok), May 10, 2002.

Regarding the lawsuits, I think they are getting out of hand now. The lawyers are loving this scandal and are encouraging the victims to come out of the woodwork. It's kind of sad in a way.

The chuch handled this badly from the beginning. I guess they never thought it would involve the numbers it did (money wise and the number of victims)

A victim reported the other day said that he is not going to sue. He reported it, but sees not reason to sue because the money is not going to change anything for him. I respected him for that.

I do wonder if the cardinals were protecting the church as they were ordered to do, if they really felt that they were handling it the right way at the time. (with the exception of Cardinal Law writing a letter of recommendation for Shanley when transferring him) - that is something I will never understand.

I hope there is some kind of healing for everyone concerned - the victims, the cardinals, etc. I wish this would end already. It just never seems to stop. The media hype is dying down.

I kind of feel sorry for Cardinal Law too - even though what he did is so wrong. I think of all the good things he did for the church over the years and he did as did the other cardinals and to end one's career like this is really sad. ML

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), May 10, 2002.

MaryLu

Now we can say a person is guilty before he is proven innocent? When did the Law on guilt change? I was always taught that guilt had to be proven, NOT assumed. Are you Cardinal Laws mother and keeper too and watch all of the daily things he has to perform. You keep forgetting that he is not the only Bishop in the Boston Archdiocese making decisions. I happen to know for a hard fact the the peers of the priests are the ones who make decisions for the assignments of the priests and the Bishop merely OKs them and really does have little knowledge of why the moves take place. He has too many other functions to do to follow all of the details as they occur.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), May 10, 2002.

MaryLu - Very fine post on the issue. It would seem the " old boys " club of the Church is exposed but sadly will continue in another form of abuse.

It constantly astounds me so many think the church is pure. It is always consoling to return to the one who is and that being Christ. He knows and listens to us all.

Let us not forget the JOY of knowing Christ.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 11, 2002.

The joy of knowing Christ?
Yes, but you rob most of us of some of that joy by your antics, Jean. You inject notes of discord, falsehood, stupidity, unjustified criticism, etc., causing much pain and anger. You pretend to have something to do with counseling or mental health, but you need therapy yourself, and you are disrupting the psychological well-being of all the good Catholics here.

Please leave us in peace here again, as you mercifully used to do for periods of long months (after dropping in for a day or two). This is an orthodox Catholic forum, not a place for cockamaimy dissenters to gather.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

"The lawyers are loving this scandal and are encouraging the victims to come out of the woodwork. It's kind of sad in a way. The chuch handled this badly from the beginning. I guess they never thought it would involve the numbers it did (money wise and the number of victims)"

Yup

-- Tony (awalker@teknett.com), May 11, 2002.

Mrs. Storey,
I have noticed that, ever since you foolishly threatened me (too) with a lawsuit on your second or third day here, you have intentionally avoided addressing messages to me. I have considered that quite a blessing, because your presence here is for an evil cause, and you do not deserve to exchange thoughts with those of us who are here for a good cause.

But now that you have addressed me directly -- posing to me a question you have asked at least a couple of times before -- I will answer you, giving you a response similar to the one that someone else gave you, but which you either forgot or intentionally ignored.

You asked: "Now John, if you could just get them to change the title here from Catholic Forum to ORTHODOX Catholic Forum .... most of us OTHER Catholics would go away. What do ya say?"

I'll tell "ya" what I say, Madame Ambassador of satanne ...
This is the "Catholic" forum, and that is what it will stay.
Part of the very definition of the word Catholic is "orthodoxy" [ortho = correct + doxy = teaching]. A person who obstinately doubts or rejects any of the defined teachings of the Catholic Church, as given to us by the successors of the Apostles (and explained in the Catechism), spurns "orthodoxy," is heretical, and cannot be called a Catholic at all. That fact (even without the reality that you have excommunicated yourself by being an abortion provider) tells us that you are simply not a Catholic.

How ridiculous it was, then, that you used these words: "most of us OTHER Catholics would go away." You are no "other Catholic." You are a non-Catholic and even a non-Christian. Your religion is Wicca, a branch of satanneism. You are, in fact, the most evil wretch with whom I have ever had the displeasure to speak.

It is true that I use the phrase "orthodox Catholic," even though those words seem to contain a redundancy. To be a real "Catholic," one must be "orthodox." But I am using the word "orthodox" before "Catholic" as a synonym for the word "genuine," not as a delimiting modifier -- as though there could exist different "branches" of Catholics (e.g., orthodox, liberal, dissenting, etc.). No such branches have ever existed, nor will they ever exist. Here is an equation: "orthodox (i.e., genuine, right-teaching) Catholic = Catholic." Nothing else fits on the left side of that equal sign. And that is why the name of this forum will not change.

Mrs. Storey, may God have pity on your endangered soul. I am praying for your conversion. And my prayers are not without hope. Here is why ... For three years, I used to spend at least three hours every Saturday morning, picketing, praying, and distributing pro-life literature in front of an abortion mill. The head nurse in the mill was a radical feminist (head of a N.O.W. chapter) named -- get this -- Joan Appleton. After several years of participating in the murder of thousands of babies, this hard-core pro-abort underwent a most marvelous conversion. She is now a pro-life activist, a speaker at pro-life conferences, and an orthodox Catholic! (So is Norma McCorvey ["Roe" of Roe vs. Wade], by the way.] And, to top it off, Joan Appleton's former abortion mill is now closed.

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray --- and do thou, o Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell satanne and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

Joan,

No one's forcing YOU to stay here, why not "vote with your feet"?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 11, 2002.