I read all the posts about the lens that would not fit on another persons M7 and it spurred my memory, recalling serveral discussions I had some years back with a noted engineer friend of mine.

We both are into guns and photography (as well as other items), and it was noted, that the Leica was nice and well made, but then again, so is the DWM Luger. For those uninitiated, the Luger, the bastion of machining precision, is wonderfully made, and a jam waiting to happen. Our 1911 .45 pistol, as issued, was sloppy but seemed to work through thick and thin.

Similarly, and rather bigotedly, we determined that mechanical excellence, and high precision must vary according to the culture.

German - each adjustment has its own locking set screw, and counter screw, use as many adjustments as can concievably be made to fit the design Japanese - design it such that all tolorance falls into one place, and make that place or item adjustable only to factory trained, sworn to secrecy technicians American - just bend the damn thing with a pliers or hammer till it either works or nobody notices its messed up Russian - weld it in place

Just food for thought.... (and I'm still thrilled my lens works now!~)

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 10, 2002

Answers

Then why are rangefinder Leicas the camera of choice for ascents up Mt. Everest, thru jungles, deserts, battlefields, etc. ? ...

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), May 10, 2002.

Good Point. All the precision - when one SMALL adjustment is a micron out of adjustment it no longer works correctly. Good think Leica's are pretty reliable!

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), May 11, 2002.

It reminds me of a Spanish film from the 60īs or 70īs, where a vivid amatheur photographer is also a skilful asesin, it lets see the relationship of the two instuments used by the killer, guns and cameras.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

I know this is a bit off topic, but: Charles, granted, the m1911 was pretty reliable. But, it was so sloppily made that it was no where NEAR as accurate a Luger. So much so that an entire industry was built up around manufacturing new parts for M1911's to make them accurate.

You don't see after market accesories to make a Leica more "sharp" or to make a Leica lens "faster" (nor do you see these aftermarket items for Lugers).

~Phillip

-- Phillip Silitschanu (speedin_saab@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

..since Charles mentions "everything" in his title...

A couple of items:

RE "bend and fix" My first personal camera was a Canon FX - predecesor to the FT/FTb etc. I dropped it the first week I had it abd dented the corner near the film advance lever. Result - the frame counter 'froze" at 36.

After several months of counting exposures on masking tape, I got fed up, took off the top, studied the mechanism, took out a bell crank in the frmae-counter ratchet, bent it a mm or so, put it back, and the camera worked fine until I sold it 15 years later.

RE Lugers and Leicas

Several months ago the History Channel did a series on "Weapons of the 20th century". There was one very telling comment on the Luger, which has a much more angled handgrip/clip than, e.g. the 45. One of the Luger afficiandos pointed out that with that grip, if you close your eyes and just point your hand at the target, once you open your eyes the sights of the gun are usually sitting right on the target. It is a very ergonomic design, like those bent-handle hammers and pliers.

OTOH, that sharper angle to the ammunition stack may be part of the reason for the Luger's jamming tendencies - the bullets have to slide forward more as they move up the clip, as well as upward.

Incidentally, the basic Luger design originated with a American engineer of German descent, who wound up selling/licensing/having-it- copied by a German company (the exact events escape me) after the US Army turned down the design.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 11, 2002.

I meant to add (back on topic) that the description of the Luger's ergonomic aiming tendencies gave ME a thrill of recognition - it is exactly the same kind of feeling I get holding/aiming an M body.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 11, 2002.

1. the camera of choice on Everest, and K2, and in the jungle (e.g. of Vietnam) has been far more often Nikon than leica. The rangefinder of the latter is quite vulnerable to shock; whereas a mechanical Nikon is, in legendary repairman Marty Forscher's phrase, "a hockey puck." 2. the Luger's trigger is so awful that the accuracy of the piece is mnore theoretical than real. That of the Colt 1911 can be tuned to a platonic crispness, which is why it remains the weapon of choice in prectical pistol competition..........

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), May 11, 2002.

FWIW, the official cameras for Sir Edmund Hillary's historic ascent of Everest were actually Zeiss Ikon Contax II's (& maybe III's) donated by Life magazine (although he & Norgay Tenzing took pictures @ the summit w/Hillary's personal Kodak Retina). From the 1930s to the mid 1950s, the Contax II & III were the preferred 35mm RFs for many, if not most, professionals, particularly war photographers (like Capa), field scientists, & others who needed a tough, precision camera w/the best lenses in the world. I think it was another 5-10 years until the 1st wimpy Leica made it to the top of Everest.

-- Chris Chen (Wash., DC) (furcafe@cris.com), May 11, 2002.

Thanks, Chris. I've been saying for years that Leica isn't a good choice for tough climatic conditions.

-- -- (Oliver.Schrinner@campus.lmu.de), May 13, 2002.

Oliver:

Here's an old post from the LUG by Zeiss expert Marc James Small. It looks like I was wrong, maybe Leica didn't get to Everest until '82!

-- Chris Chen (Wash., DC) (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), May 13, 2002.

... my three pfennigs worth (ja, dammit, these things don't exist here anymore either)...

1. Of course, Leica Ms' and Rs' numerical standings are all peanuts in comparison with those of  Nikon or Canon. Just keep your eyes on newspaper and TV reportings!
2. Everybody talks about the Luger. I favour the Mauser C96 (broomhandle). Now that was a real German issue. Even got into Chinese copies.
3. To get back to your subject ("Leica, precision, life, the universe and everything... "), I am absolutely certain that the best thing here is that which I like the very most about all this German stuff. Yes, it is also a saying in their advertisements: Here, with an M, you're the boss, not the camera. I'm not sorry to say I love that characteristic.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), May 13, 2002.