I'm considering either trading my M6TTL for an M7 (plus probably paying ~$1200-$1500 difference) or getting a new 21 ASPH + viewfinder for $1800 to add to my 35-50-90 kit. My favorite FL when I had my Nikon gear was 24mm, and I miss that perspective, so I'm leaning toward the 21. I think my urge to get the M7 is just to have the "latest and greatest". What would you do?

-- Ken Geter (kgeter@yahoo.com), May 10, 2002

Answers

Get the 21mm!

Wait on the M7 - wait another year or two.

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), May 10, 2002.

If you liked the 24mm before, why not try it again on the M? Excellent lens. Resist the M7.

-- Ken (kennyshipman@aol.com), May 11, 2002.

Buy all the newest, latest equipment you can. I love you guy. It leaves so much good used equipment out there at bargain prices. I use the 21 pre aspheric. It's a good lens that always brings home great images. Good luck.

-- Gil Pruitt (wgpinc@yahoo.com), May 11, 2002.

I talked with Richard at KB Camera regarding choosing between the 21 and 24, since I have the 35 and 75, and he basically said for scenics the 24 is better since if you're not too much into dramatic foregrounds and want some distant objects to show pretty well, the 24 doesn't shrink them into tinyness. Don't know how true that is, but maybe the 24 matches my set better.

-- James (snodoggydogg@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

I too am feeling the itch to trade in my M6 for a 7, but remind myself of the old adage "Never be the first to buy something and never be the last."

There has been at least one thread on this forum about a fault someone encountered with the M7 - it was perhaps something to do with the lock on the shutter release, which is said to be made from plastic.

Another contributor said that Leica constantly introduce improvements/changes to Ms without making a big to-do about it. I can't imagine the 7 will be any different, and I guess that any important ones are more likely to come earlier rather than later in its no doubt very long period of production.

So, I'm waiting a while. Get the 21. Alternatively, get the VC 21mm - which I have and is superb - invest the difference and you'll get your M7 pain free in a year or so.

-- Paul Hart (paulhart@blueyonder.co.uk), May 11, 2002.

I think you should sell your M6 then buy the M7, you get better price than trade in, you can't just wait for the price drop or improvments on the M7, you wait for ever, by the time everything is right for the M7, the M8 is about to come out.

-- Jia Shi (lee88@mindspring.com), May 11, 2002.

Hey Ken:

Why not throw caution to the wind and get both?

HUGE :-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), May 11, 2002.

I have the CV21, and it's a jewel. I can't see going Leitz on this one. However, 24mm has always been a favorite for me with my Nikons, and I recently acquired the Leitz 24mm ASPH. Early results are stunning. Erwin Puts the 24 ASPH and 90 ASPH at the top of his list, ranked by performance, and somewhere in his review says [not an exact quote, just my memory] "No M photographer should be without this lens. The strength of the M system is on the wide end, a style of involved photojournalism where you get in close." [very loose quote, Erwin really seems to hate being quoted.] If you just got another body, I don't think it's going to have much effect on your photos. But a best-ever lens in a favorite focal length just might. (My sales pitch for this morning.)

-- Phil Stiles (Stiles@metrocast.net), May 11, 2002.

I have a 24mm and find it great. You might find less use for a 21mm. Also maybe a 24mm would tend to distort less (depending on your taste) and be easier to keep the horizon flat. It might be my mind but compared to my old Nikon the Leica 24mm seems to be a wide 24, if there can be such a thing. It's near on perfect for building interiors. The little plastic viewfinder worried me initially but it's just fine. Does seem a bit tight to push off at times, little lock leaver not withstanding.

-- Greg Pratt (gregpan@ozemail,com.au), May 11, 2002.

With a 35mm the 24 is a nice one-and-only-ultrawide; the 21 makes better sense with a 28. Since you already like the 24, it's a shoo- in plus it's one of the best M lenses ever.

As to whether to get a new lens or an M7, you have to decide which will add more to your output...a new and wider focal length or the AE and more accurate shutter (really only important if you shoot slide film and really only at 1/500 and 1/1000 assuming your M6TTL is tuned up tight to specs). There's also the issue of do you want to become an unpaid beta-tester for the M7 or not. Not to mention the issue of the current high-but-sure-to-drop price of the M7 combined with the temporarily depressed market for the M6. Once the ants-in-the-pants crowd is done buying M7's, you'll do a lot better on one.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 11, 2002.

When I was deciding on which way to go (6 or 7) I pretty much had myself convinced the 7 was what I wanted. I found one locally and went over to the shop to see how they compared. Truthfully I expected very little difference. But I was immediately bothered by several things, most really small, but the one thing that I found unbelievably annoying was that the LED's for the light meter were lower in the viewfinder on the 7 than the 6. And for me ( a glasses wearer) I couldn't comfortably see both the LED's and the top of the 50mm framelines. And that plus some other minor things swayed me towards the 6. I only mention it because after all the comments I heard about the 7 and 6 I don't remember anyone noting this difference.

sprouty

-- Stephen Prouty (sprouty115@cox.net), May 11, 2002.

Dump the M6TTL and get the M7. The M6TTL is passe. Everyone on the LUG has already traded in their old cameras and upgraded. I believe that discussions of the M6 and M6TTL are now being ignored. Makes sense. The M6 really sucked in comparison to the phenomenal improvements made in the M6TTL. Same now. Everything about the M7 is better. Ask anyone.

-- Keith Davis (leica4ever@yahoo.com), May 11, 2002.

Well, I guess no one asked me about the M7. The M6 TTL and all earlier M variants with the mechanical shutter have a distinct advantage over the M7 in difficult light conditions and specifically when using an independent spot meter (when the M6 or 7 meter is not selective enough). This M6 advantage stems from the manual mode operation of the M7 electronic shutter which cannot be varied from the marked shutter speed settings, only in AE mode can this be done.

In contrast the Leica mechanical shutter can be used between marked settings. This provides the M6 user more available light flexibility at the very time that every sliver of light is sorely needed. The M6 variable shutter can allow a fraction of an f stop more light in when the lens is already wide open, or allow for greater depth of field if a wider aperture is not desired.

In theater, court and stage photography the variable (manually set) shutter is a BIG advantage which the M7 gives away. Considering that these dark and necessarily quite camera environments are one of the areas where M cameras still reign supreme, I view the M7 as less capable for much of the photography which I do.

-- Doug from Tumwater (dbaker9128@aol.com), May 11, 2002.

neither. get another M6TTL. it'll save you a bundle (geez...i sound like a 1-800-COLLECT ad).

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), May 11, 2002.

A quick note, these are all opinion comments anyway, there are a number of threads on M7 pro-con considerations here. Since I use Nikon auto-slrs and D1's and manual M's I have really utilized the M7's auto-exposure, FOR ME it works and I know that I would have had shots of lesser quality had I not had the auto feature.. I realize this expose's my weakness with the M6, but I have to use every aid I can when I'm working to get the shot.. Others may not feel the same because of their expertise.

-- gary brown (drdad1111@yahoo.com), May 11, 2002.

Obviously this is a personal decision and this is merely my opinion, but I'd get the 21 (or the 24). Buying the lens will give you capabilities with your system you don't currently have.

Admittedly, a shiny new M7 will give you AE, but unless that's something you miss having right now, I wouldn't make the trade. Saying that the M6ttl (or m3 for that matter) is passe is crazy. A camera is not about style or keeping up with trends. If you want modern technology, save your money and get an F100, which is light-years ahead of the M7.

In fact, I bought a brand new M6 today, a .58 to supplement my two other M6 ttl's. It was leica day at NY camera in PA, and between the discount and the rebate I got it for $1465. A great deal, even if it isn't the newest thing to hit the shelves.

As far as which lens to get, that's a tougher question tied to your personal preference. I'm currently trying to make the same decision. Since I have a 28 'cron, I'm leaning towards the 21. My buddy at work swears by it, says it's way sharper and less distorted than the Nikon AF version. They're both great lenses, I'm sure you'll be happy either way.

-- NA (naddis@mindspring.com), May 11, 2002.

Doug. I don't htink what you are saying is right (or else I don't understand it). On the M6, you can set intermediate shutter speeds, but they will NOT be accurate. If the shutter speed dial is set betwen 125 and 250, you will not necessarily get the halfway shutter speed, in fact, there is no way of knowing exactly what shutter speed you will get. The M6 was not designed to give proporional intermediate speeds.

Secodly, you can set any shutter speed you want, with greater accuracy on the M7 in AUTO mode, simply by varying the aperture until you get the desired shutter speed. This is fast and more accurate since you get intermediate speeds and you know what speed you are getting.

Ken. I have an M7 and it works just fine. Exactly as described in the manual. Don't listen to these nervous nellies. If you want an M7, go for it. In AUTO mode, it is really considerably faster than an M6 (in which the metering is accurate but leisurely) or my M4P with Leicameter MR4.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 12, 2002.

Thanks for all your advice. Please don't hate me, but I didn't get either. I did initially go to the shop and got the 21mm + finder, but when I got it home I noticed something weird with the finder: the lens coating was faulty, and "striped" on one side. I took a few shots around the house and immediately noticed how un-ergonomic the lens + finder setup was - I kept sticking my nose in the built- in finder, and kept getting fingerprints all over the 21 finder. The buyer's remorse was starting to set in... I returned the whole kit and kaboodle within an hour. It just didn't feel right, also I don't like the idea of going from a 3 to 4 lens kit at this point. I still have too much to learn about my current lenses.

I had decided against the M7 for the only reason that I really want a chrome body (I'm sick, yes).

So, I wound up getting something more practical and was far less expensive: a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual II scanner and an Epson Stylus PHOTO 785EPX printer. I haven't left my computer since. There is a lot for me to learn about this digital darkroom stuff, but so far I'm having a ball. Thanks again for all your advice. I'll probably get an M7 sometime in 2003, but I don't think I'll ever get a lens that requires an external finder, oh well.

-- Ken Geter (kgeter@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

Ken. Good luck. The M7 is already out in a chrome finish (same price as black). I have seen a number offered for sale. (No 0.85 or 0.58X, only 0.72 so far).

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 12, 2002.

I say always get the lens. With a new lens you have a new perspective on life. The camera body does nothing here - the M6 is a classic. Much better to spend money on new lenses. You might actually take some different-looking photos.

I would get the 24mm ASPH, as you can buy a 21mm should you want one for $350-400 - the CV 21/4 which is a good lens. I enjoy mine, but I do think perhaps that a 24mm might be more useful - but I can't get a coupled 24mm at a budget price, so can't afford it right now. All I can say is I am taking more 21mm shots on the M then I ever do when I use my R. Mind you I have a 28mm for my R and not for my M.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.