In the past month or so I've seen a number of posts asking if Leicas can be used for wedding photography. I wanted to share my experience of shooting a wedding with Leicas last night, here in Austin. A friend of mine called a few weeks ago and asked me to be one of three photogrpahers to shoot a very large and very upscale wedding here in Austin. One shooter was using a Nikon D1 digital camera, My friend was shooting mostly with 35mm Nikon AF's and also used an older Hassleblad for the "formal" shots and family groups in front of the church.

For most of the "getting dressed" and preparation shots, I used a motorized R8 with a 35 Summicron and a Metz 54 (with the 3501 adapter) Flash. The flash was attached to an SC-17 off camera cord. I used manual exposure for the ambient light and TTL metering for the flash. I always try to set the flash exposure about one stop higher than the ambient exposure. A second R8 with the 80 Summilux and a bounced Metz 54 was used for tighter shots. I mostly shot Portra 400 VC. I also carried an M7 with a 50 Summilux, loaded with Tri-x. I used this combination for available light opportunities.

The Church has a strict "no photography during ceremony" rule. We were allowed to shoot from the balcony and I did so with a 280 2.8, an 80C filter was added to get half way back from Tungstun, on an R8. My counterpart was using a Nikkor 300 2.8 on the D1. We'll compare images in the week to come.

During the group shots I would set them up and shoot some loose 35mm shoots while our noble leader shot a selection of images with his Hasselblad, using 50mm and 80mm lenses. Main light from a Metz CT45 with fill from a second CL45.

On to the reception in a very low light hotel ball room. I mostly used the R8 with the 50mm Summilux (8 element) and the Metz with a Lumiquest bounce card on a stroboframe bracket. The flash was about 12 inches above the lens. The combination of the fast, very sharp 50 and the clean, bright finder of the R8 made for positive focus under conditions that stumped the Auto AF Nikons about 50% of the time. The room lights measured about 1/8, f2 so I set a manual exposure of 1/15 at a 2.8 and shot lots of tri-x and Portra 400. Around 9 pm (started shooting around 4pm) I got tired of carrying two motorized R8's so I dumped them in the bag and grabbed two M7's. One with a 35 ASPH summicron, the other with the 50 summilux. I used SF20's on Sc-17's for both of them as well. Much lighter and easier to focus.

Locked in at 1/15 shutter speed and f 3.5. Up close at wider apertures the SF-20 has more than enough power. With a soft fill made out of two layers of Rosco Soft Spun material ballooned in front of the flash tube, It makes for a very nice and manageable system.

Nikon shooters started to remark that the focusing and reaction time to exposure, in very low light, was much faster for me than they were capable of with their nikons, even with the focus lights on the flashes.

I shot 46 rolls of film last night, evenly mixed between B&W and color. I was tired when I crawled into my car around 12:30 last night.

It was different than the corporate work I am used to, but it was also quite fun. Most of the techniques I used at the wedding: knowing how far away to hold the corded flash, balancing the ambient light and the flash, are tried and true techniques I've learned over the years shooting for corporate PR and magazines. The biggest lesson is how important it is to smile warmly at your subjects, engage them on a genuine level, and then shoot quickly and decisively.

R's and M's are very good wedding cameras. One caveat, you can't use M's and flash with high light levels, I just doesn't work.

Hope this wasn't too boring for inclusion, but it is on topic.

Happy Sunday. Kirk

-- kirk (kirktuck@io.com), May 12, 2002

Answers

it wasn't boring at all. it's rather cool you found time to share this experience with us.

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

What model AF Nikons were getting stumped at 1/8 f2?..........

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), May 12, 2002.

N90s, F100

-- kirk (kirktuck@kirktuck.com), May 12, 2002.

Hey Kirk- Thanks for this post. I shoot about 25 weddings a year, and use mostly Leica M's for this work, so I am very interested in what your experiences are. I shot a wedding last night, too- just me and my assistant who is a great second shooter. We shot 22 rolls of 35mm and four rolls of 120 (Hasselblad) formals- also mostly Portra 400 color and Tri-X, but also a lot of Portra 160, esp. for outdoor stuff (and the formals).

I use an M3, an M6 and a Hexar RF body for this work. For lenses, I use a VC 15 and VC 21; 28 and 35 'cron's, 50 DR, 50 'lux, 90 Elmarit-M and 135 Elmar. I also carry two Nikon FM2's and long lenses, a 105 f1.8, a 180 f2.8 ED and a 300 f4. One Hassie 500 with 60, 80, and 150 for formals. My assistant has got hooked on Leicas using my equipment, and is looking for an affordable M4 or M6. He used to carry his Canon EOS stuff, but the look of the shots was so different to my Leica stuff that it jsut didn't work, and I asked him to carry one of my cameras and shoot the same way I did. After much complaining about this, and more than a few wasted rolls, he has got it figured out, and is now borrowing my M3 when ever he can while we aren't working.

I like using the M's for weddings. The size and weight means it's no big deal to carry around for 6 to 10 hours at a time. Plus, people don't really think of me as the "pro photographer", since I'm not carrying a huge rig, so they are very relaxed, and I can get a lot of shots I just couldn't get with other bigger and more obtrusive cameras. Also, I am a right -eyed shooter, and I generally keep my left eye open most of the time, so people in front of my camera connect with me and not an intimidating lens. My shots tend to have a lot of folks looking just outside of the frame, but they look like they are totally unaware of the camera, and not posing for it. My clients love it.

As far as flash, I use several small units- a Metz 28 C2, an old Nikon unit, an SF20, and occaisonally some Wein slave units to add a little light in the background. I use these on camera or off, depending upon the sittuation- I never use brackets, to try to keep the rig in my hands small. I will hyperfocus the lens and keep my subjects at the right distance and shoot without focusing, with the corder flash in my left hand pointed wherever I want it. This gives me very good results, with high numbers (like 85-90%) of shots in focus with wide lenses and apertures- like f4 or 5.6. I do use rounded diffusion panels similar to the SFill on all my flash units, and generally shoot the units at ambient, or one or two stops below ambient if there's enought light and I just want a touch of fill. I use 1/15th-1/50th shutter speeds (I like a little movement, depending upon the shot). If I need faster flash, I use the Hexar- generally for outside stuff. I get very natural , un-flashed looking pictures.

This system works very well for me- I began experimenting with my M cameras at weddings a few years ago, and got seriously commited to it in the last year and a half. I now use the SLR's only for longer shots, like from the balcony, etc. It's a great way to do weddings, as my kit is much smaller and lighter and the clients love the pictures. Now, as soon as my assistant get's an M camera, I can have my M3 back...

-- drew (swordfisher@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

as a newbie to using flash on Leica M's what have you found best for fill using the SF-20? Any flash tips are helpful.. Thanks for the post I have a wedding coming up for a friend in August.

-- gary brown (drdad1111@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

Another newbie question: What is SFill? Thanks again, I feel like a kid at the periphery of the conversation!

-- gary brown (drdad1111@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

Please tell us about fill flash.i think the other readers would like actually need the data.Found your topic very interesting.i do wedding photography and surely would have quit earlier than you with the weight of those R-8's...Did an assignment at Arnold Schwarzerneger's Restaurant,where to say the light was poor would be to exagerate what there was...nil.Other photographer had a kinda video lite on his EOS Canon.I pulled out my M3,50mm Summicron and shot away with a Vivitar 2300 compact flash.All the photos were sharp.I was also shooting faster than the EOS..So your remarks about the AF-Nikons back me up. I prefer the photos done with my Leica M's...I find I capture the special moments easier and my clients usually order more reprints from the Leica!Often the SLR photos are better composed and exposed,but the M has more sales!I think because the "roundness" and lack of distortion.If I can prefer to use Leicas only,but must occassionaly drag along SLR with lenses.Rollie TLR for a very very very few formals.Thanks for sharing the experience.

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), May 12, 2002.

".... I was tired when I crawled into my car around 12:30 last night. ...."

Ah Kirk, ain't it a great feelin' though?

I usually shoot my wedding work with a 500c/m and/or 553el/x. I prefer the 553 because it's nearly (not quite) like having an instant return mirror (before I get flamed, if you've used one of each of those cameras, you know what I'm talking about). Three lenses, 60mm, 80mm and 250mm. Flash in a big softbox on a stroboframe.

What amazes me about your experience, and I take no qualm with it (its just amazing thats all), is the amount of exposures taken. Am I correct in concluding that each of three photographers probably shot the same amount? Forty-six times three times thirty-six equals quite nearly five thousand exposures! Even your forty-six is more than sixteen hundered exposures. Totally amazing. I just dont get into weddings of that league. I've never maxed out two propacks of 220 film. I'm glad too (oh my achin' back.....!)

Take care!

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 12, 2002.

It's a lot of film, but it's not that much if you're shooting without trying to control the event. The most I've shot at one wedding was about 2,200 frames, but that was with a German bride with all of her family (and minister!) flown in, in a ceremony with 2 ministers goine, etc. Very unique, beautiful bride in a shockingly beautiful dress, lots of photo opportunities.

I think an average of ~1,000 frames is typical for the "PJ" style of wedding photography.

I've never had the chance to do it with M equipment, though that's how I think I'll handle things in the future. Last wedding I shot I got to use a Hexar RF for most of it and it was liberating - - I was still carrying around a 500C/50C/Flash/battery combo, but it was so very much nicer than running around with a Nikon kit. Next one I'll try with 2 M's, 15mm, 35 & 50 Summicrons, and a 90 Elmarit.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one leaning this way with wedding work.

-- Derek Zeanah (derek@derekzeanah.com), May 12, 2002.

Charles posed an interesting question. Why so much film? I must admit that I shoot a lot more than my other colleagues. They tend to be a bit more introverted and shoot at middle distances. I like to get in close and fill the frame. Then I start bracketing for expression. The first two or three frames are a little stiff, but they seem to get playful around the fifth or sixth frame. But the real reason for the overkill is that this was one of the biggest, Texas society weddings of the year. There was even a camera crew from MTV there. 18 Bridesmaids and 18 Groomsmen. 400 guests. Our connection to this affair? The groom had taken private darkroom courses and photography courses from my friend, Todd.

Also, it was obvious from the tenor of the party that no one needed to worry about the cost of processing.

Sfills are an invention of Herr Lutz Konnerman who invent little, inexpensive tools for the Leica M system. The Sfill goes in front of the flash tube of the SF20 to diffuse and soften the light. Under $20 and well made. I just use a couple of layers of Rosco SoftSpun material and get the same effect.

Also, to cut down on weight with the R8 package, I've stopped using Quantum or Lumdyne external battery packs and now use only Metal Nickel Hydride Batteries. Helps keep things mobile.

Happy Mother's Day.

Kirk

-- kirk (kirktuck@kirktuck.com), May 12, 2002.

With todays trend to "pre-sell" the "album", I'm wondering about the business/final result of such a grand endeavor.

I'm assuming the three of you will sit down and select the frames you think are best... but great god all mighty.... 5000 images. The logistics of reprints is beyond my comprehension.

The profitability of this is also beyond my comprehension. I'm assuming there will be 36 companion albums for the bridesmaids and groomsmen, plus parents and grandparents companion albums.

Chillun' can you say "cha-ching!"

Nice goin' Kirk!

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 12, 2002.

Charles, I wish I were more involved in the back end of the wedding. I agree that is where the big profit is. I was a hired gun. And while I could buy an M7 and change for my involvement I would gladly trade for a piece of the re-order. That being said, the guy I work with doesn't do any sort of "pre-sell" or "packages", it is all upfront fee+ expenses+reprints. His costs and our day rates were covered before we loaded the first roll. Not unlike a typical corporate public relations function.

There's still some money in this photography game, despite the nay- sayers.

Best, Kirk

-- kirk (Kirktuck@kirktuck.com), May 12, 2002.

Great story. Lots of info to sift through. I'm sitting here with 4 previous weddings in process. I'm swimming in images, and I didn't shoot nearly as much film and digital as you did. I agree, that the little Leicas' are a God sent when you're working from 10AM to 11PM covering the whole day from the beauty parlor to the B&G departing. I'm not quite sure the focus situation with the Nikons is typical. I'm working with D1-Xs for SLR work which are based on an F-100, and rarely experience focus hunt even in the darkest reception hall. I can hold them up over my head and shoot a danced floor with 2nd shutter flash, and they lock focus every time. But I'm using a 28/1.4 and 85/1.4 - maximum apertures which make a big difference when it comes to AF. Actually, you can use the Leica's with fill flash in higher light. 6 or 8X NDs do the trick. And, unlike an SLR, the ease of focus is uneffected by the reduced light intake. That way you can retain the Leica look consistantly picture to picture. Your story inspires me to try an entire B&W wedding with Ms alone ( well, maybe a Mamiya 7II also, just for the formals ). Thanks for the posting.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 12, 2002.

Two years ago I sold a house to a wedding photographer in this crazy N. California real estate market. She paid $400k for it. Was able to make the down and the payments doing weddings on the weekends so it must pay reasonably well for some people. I asked her about what kind of equipment she used and she said 35mm. She gave a me jive answer that the equipment didn't matter because it was her 'vision' they were buying. I guess it helps to have that kind of inflated sense of yourself to charge big bucks for a wedding. I would have liked to learn more about what she did but never really got the chance. I saw her later at a local photo spot, with a model, lugging a Nikon AF half as big as my Honda. I hope she is still doing well and making her house payments. I owned that house for a year and made over 30% on it. Cheers.

-- Gil Pruitt (wgpinc@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.

Gils story reminds me of an article I once read in Studio & Design that helped give me a goal to shoot for. A wedding shooter in Boston ( I think ), was charging $10,000. flat fee and provided 40, 7"X7" prints of her selection mounted in an album along with a couple of matted display prints ( one of which was hand painted ). She was booked solid 2 years in advance. You do the math. I now select all the images for a 40 picture album. After the wedding, the next time the couple sees me is to pick up their completed package. I've had zero requests for changes after 2 years worth of weddings, and all of my customers have sent me referrals. Now, if I can just get to that $10,000. level, and get book that far in advance, I could quit my day job.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 12, 2002.

Hello Kirk-

Thanks for the very informative posting, sounds like you worked your tail off. I haven't used flash in years and so I was hoping you might clarify a couple of things.

First: "I always try to set the flash exposure about one stop higher than the ambient exposure". Does this work like setting your film speed one stop slower in order to get more saturation with color film?

And second, "The room lights measured about 1/8, f2 so I set a manual exposure of 1/15 at 2.8". I'm not sure about that one.

Thank you Kirk.

-- jeff voorhees (debontekou@yahoo.com), May 13, 2002.

Here are my only (so far) Leica weddings pix.

Wedding

I wasn't the Pro - and kept out of her way and shot the "backstory" - which I found more interesting anyway. The intended audience was the bride - my niece - and she's thrilled with what I got (naturally). So don't feel YOU have to love these.

I've done about 3 weddings 'professionally' in my life, and respect those folks who do it - a lot of pressure and a lot of hard work in the middle of a crowd of people who are just having fun and getting smashed.

But if I WERE shooting professionally I would try to have most of the shots be in this vein, in addition to the critical group/romatic images.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 14, 2002.

About 20 years ago I worked for a large portrait studio, shooting HS seniors. The staff were encouraged to shoot weddings. Their method was nearly all "formals" with a few candids. We used Bronica ETRs and it was the rule never to shoot more than ten rolls of 120 because "they won't buy any more than that". That studio was successful, But wow, have times changed! Certainly the Leica M is a great camera for "candid" work.

-- Mark Sampson (MSampson45@aol.com), May 14, 2002.

Thanks for the original post Kirk, enjoyed reading it. FWIW a few thoughts; I dumped my MF gear just over two years ago and started shooting my weddings entirely on 35mm. Nikons. A year ago added an M6. Never looked back. Added another M6 last month because I really wanted to shoot my colors with Leica also. Really enjoyed shooting with two M's, however as I shoot with four bodies, 35mm and 90mm's each for color and B&W I still wasn't there. Added another M6 on the way to Saturdays's wedding and had an absolute blast. I really was a joy to work with the three bodies. I kept a N90s for syncro-sunlight but hardly used it at all. I had another shooter who had wanted observe me shoot with his digital (S1), gosh I'd forgotten how loud mirrors are. I coould hear it all over the church. I was able to shoot entire ceremony in a not too bright church with NPS and FP4. Reception was at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. Switched to Neopan (reated at 640) and NPZ. Used 35mm, 50mm lux and 50mm noctilux as well as some on the 90mm cron. It really is light, fast, soooo easy to use in comparision to the Nikons or other SLR's.

Usually I shoot anywhere between 35-50 rolls per event, I don't count until I arrive home. If I see it I shoot it. My costs factor this in so I'm not worried about how much I'm shooting.

Comment: I know others may (will) say it shouldn't be done, but I'm doing it and my m's have survived thus far. I use a SB24 on one of my M6 TTL's, I have it set on Auto and the shutter somewhere between 1/4 and 1/30, (it's usually 1/15. Stofen Omnibounce, set at 45 degree angle. Aperture set at f/11 on a 35mm. Good fast shooting.

All B&W film is hand processed and combined with C-41 for scanning and proofing. There are no proof prints. Client receives CD.

It really is a temendous way to make a living. My wife tells me "You don't even think that your'e going to work when you leave the house"

There's lot's more, however there's also an album to be finished tonight. All the best George

-- george weir (george@georgeweir.com), May 15, 2002.

Here's the other end of the wedding food chain. I started shooting weddings in 1971, as an apprentice to the most requested wedding photographer in a town of 250,000. He pre-sold albums - usually 12- print, sometimes 18's, rarely 24's. After I'd done enough second- string work (maybe 8 or 10 weddings), he gave me my first solo. I remember him handing me a Rolleicord, a Multiblitz Report flash and a 5-roll box of 120 VPS. His instructions were to shoot the fifth roll of film only if something screwed up - otherwise I was to bring it back. He billed himself as a "candid" shooter - 90% formals and nice casual poses, 10% candids...

I've never done work that stressed me as much as weddings - even though I love shooting people, the absolute requirement for constant success wore me down after a while. After 10 years of shooting weddings, I've taken an oath that the only way I'll shoot another one is with an M16...

-- Paul Chefurka (paul@chefurka.com), May 15, 2002.

Way OT but here I go with my 2cents. Been shooting wedds for 19 years, the guy I learned from told me about his equiptment in 1947-60s. A 4x5 Koni-Omega weighing about 9 pounds, a flash unit with bulbs that had to be licked before going in, one shot its done. He had special pockets built into his Tux that had fresh bulbs in the right , exhausted bulbs in his left. the pockes went through to the back and met at the seam!! Imagine ? So when I learned on Mamiya C330s, he told me how lucky I was. he would be rolling in his grave if he seen the minimalistic approach of the shooters today.

just my 2cents

-- mike (thearea19@aol.com), May 15, 2002.

At the wedding of my daughter, 6 weeks ago, I could not resist to leave everything to the professionals and shot a roll with my M6 and one with my just acquired minilux. I found this a good combo and the results were very good(to my standards). I wonder if the Minilux is used by profs and why the 3E(tri-elmar) has not been mentioned - or do they all shoot at 1.4?

-- Andre Bosmans (a.bosmans@pandora.be), May 17, 2002.