In the recent thread two steps below on "which one camera; lens ; and film;" Two people mentioned Nikon F/F2 because of their reliability....My old Nikon F or F2 has never needed repair ever....My Nikkor lenses have required retightening of screws because of alot of airline travel/vibrations in packed gear...I pack them in ziplock bags to contain the screws;..Now I dab the screw heads with glue..My 1955 Leica M3 has never required service by me; but I have only this recent body for a few years... I did adjust the rangefinder cam for infinity and close adjustments recently..

What repairs were required on your Leica M series? Was it because you did not use the camera enough? ie required CLA after sitting unused along time?

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 18, 2002

Answers

The most common problems I've had involved flashes refusing to fire (three or four times on various cameras) and rangefinder components coming apart (small RF window falling out twice; beamsplitter delamination once, after being dropped, though.)

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), May 18, 2002.

I experienced only one problem with an M camera

But it was a write off ...

My M5 shutter was destroyed by the breaking of a bearing (part of the body itself) of one of the curtain rolls.

Though it was technically repairable, it was economically not feasible. The cost of the repair (which can't be carried elsewhere than at Leica's) exceeded the cost of a mint condition second hand M5.

As the M5 price on second hand market is reaching summits with the influence of collectors-speculators and after a one week free test, I decided to buy a new Hexar RF instead of another M5 in mint condition for which I had to wait an indefinite delay. I was unable to afford a second hand M6 or M6 TTL (first price around $ 1665 in France)...

Nevertheless, I still consider Leica M cameras highly reliable at least up and including the M5 than many other brands (but Nikon with the F2) but I'm more reserved about the M6 and M6 TTL...

As for a camera sitting unused, problems with any mechanical camera will surface due to the deterioration of the parts lubricant... Nikon F and F2 are less prone to be affected because the tolerances are broader than in an M camera.

To risk a comparative in WW 2 aviation field, the M is a Hurricane (robust but still a fighter) and the F2 a Dakota (thus a transport)...

But no camera is free of problems one day or another.

Friendly

François P. WEILL

-- François P. WEILL (frpawe@wanadoo.fr), May 18, 2002.

I was unable to afford a second hand M6 or M6 TTL (first price around $ 1665 in France)...

In the UK you can buy a M6 mint- for £800.

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 18, 2002.

The only repairs to my Leica's have been normal CLA's. 2 M3's, IIIf, IIf, III, 2 M1's, and a new M6TTL with no problems at all. Now realising I just jinxed myself.

-- chris a williams (LeicaChris@worldnet.att.net), May 18, 2002.

I have been using Leicas for more than 40 years. The problems fall into four categories. First Leica was a IIIf

1. Shutter

2. Shutter

3. Shutter

4. Shutter

Do we see a pattern here? It is commonly the slow shutter speeds. The advantage is that there is someone who will fix them

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), May 18, 2002.

I once had a hairline crack in an M4 rangefinder mirror. it wasn't visible in focusing but I got it repaired anyway. I also had some older M2's with yellowing at the rangefinder mirror corners. Presumably aging of the glue, or some sort of mould.

-- gjm (oasisgjm@yahoo.com), May 18, 2002.

nothing, ever....

-- grant (lotusphotography@yahoo.com), May 18, 2002.

Recurrent meter failure on the M5 and CLs. Tiny pieces of film jamming the 3f and 3g shutters. Slow speeds stopped working on the M4. Slow speeds mixed up on the 3f. Bugeyes are crossed on 35 Summicron. DR Summicron stuck in near range. Generally, malfunction of a M Leica will only cause an inconvenience of not using that particular function, while malfunction of any system of an SLR is more likely to cause complete catastrophic failure.

-- Bill (bmitch@comcast.net), May 18, 2002.

Lub problem in one of my M3, speeds were off from 250 and down, winding begun to be harder and harder until I just didn´t want to go on and send it for a CLA, still I could make 140 rolls in few weeks.

Interesting your point about SLR´s problems Bill,

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), May 18, 2002.

What repairs were required on your Leica M series?

None including Rs and 111C USED A LOT.

-- Allen Herbert (allen1@btinternet.com), May 18, 2002.

the shutters need reg maintenance else they begin to taper at high speeds and hang up at the slow end. the rf is susceptible to misalignment if the camera is jolted. i find that, on average, the cameras need to be serviced every five years. a nikon f/f2, as far as i can tell, never needs servicing of any kind. it's the camera woody would have found on the back seat of the vw bug, and picked up and used in sleeper. the foam dries up and falls out, but the camera is perfectly usable without it (i've never seen a mirror break). the f/f2's durability is unsurprising in view of the fact that the nikon shutter is ti foil, and so presents a relatively small mass. it's easy to move, easy to stop, and very durable (as long as you don't poke it) -- at least as compared to leica's thick rubberized cloth (which admittedly you can poke if you so desire).

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 18, 2002.

I have been using M-cameras (M4-Ps and M6s) and various motor drives for 20 years with relatively heavy use and I have never experienced a malfunction. During the same period of time, I have used numerous FM2s and MD12s and only once had a problem (shutter advance needed to be replaced).

-- Jim Lennon (jim@jmlennon.com), May 18, 2002.

My bank account! ;>)

-- Todd Frederick (fredrick@hotcity.com), May 18, 2002.

My 1989 M6 has never been serviced and according to my digital shutter tester the speeds are all within 1/3-1/6 stop (I do periodically tune up the 500/1000 speeds myself on my M6's). My 1996 M6 is likewise working fine. 3 years ago I had my 1970 M4 CLA'd for the 1st time, and my 1950 IIIf CLA'd for the 2nd time (the 1st was in 1973)but only because I figured they deserved it, not because there was anything wrong. At the same time I had my 1937 IIIa CLA'd but that one needed a new shutter as the original one's rubberized surface was getting tacky. I did own a silver M6 on which just the 1/8 speed hung up, and the seller graciously sent it back to Leica under Passport. When it came back 1/8 was working, but at 1/6. So back it went. I had an R6 back to Leica twice also, because the 1st time they didn't set the shutter speeds close enough. I'm Leica's worst nightmare: a customer with a digital shutter tester.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 18, 2002.

The shutter on our 1967 M4 became unreliable in the summer of 1999. I really can't tell you how many 135-36 rolls on 'chrome had been through the camera, as it's used havily throughout the year. Since we shoot slides almost exclusively, the malfunction was apparent.

We sent the M4 to Sherry Krauter for a CLA and repair. She had to replace several shutter components - - and that baby really ticks now! My oldest grandchild has asked for the M4 in my will. She gets it, and it'll probably still be going strong in 2025.

The 1945 IIIc that I gave to my son-in-law has been CLA'd several time, but still works. Our very early edition of the M6 hasn't seen service as yet - - - and doesn't appear to need it.

NOW!! If you'd like to enquire as to how the Leitz/Leica slide projectors hold up - - - that's a different question. Thank goodness for Leica USA repair technicians.

-- George C. Berger (gberger@his.com), May 18, 2002.

In 40+ years nothing has ever "broken" on my M's. However on both my M2 and M3 the synch between the first and second shutter curtains has needed adjustment.

Each time was close to the 10 years I allow between CLAs though so it was no addition over and above the normal CLA cost. At about $25 a year currently, spread over a 10 period, a routine CLA is a pretty good investment. Even if (not taking inflation into account) its about the same I paid for both bodies new a long ways back. Who knows how many problems were nipped in the bud. Plus I like the clearer and brighter RF, and can always feel the difference in the advance.

Best,

Jerry

-- Jerry Pfile (Jerry Pfile@MSN.com), May 18, 2002.

M2

Slow speeds, curtain jammed, curtain replaced, rangefinder adjust, slow speeds again (ten years later), strap lugs an d vulcanite replaced all over a 15 year perio

d .

First M4 - 2

Slow speeds, rangefinder adjust and winder coupling adjus t .

Second M4 - 2

Medium speed train, rangefinder adjust, winding gear, wind er coupling replaced, shutter roller replaced and flash syn c s.

M6 T TL

Rangefinder vertical adjust (twice under passpo r t)

135/ 4.5

CLA and coliminate.

50/2

CLA and adjust focus cam.

35/1.4A

Repair tight spot in focus helical and check colmination.

21/3.4

Rear optical unit loosened and CLA.

Visoflex 3

CLA

-- John Collier (jbcollier@shaw.ca), May 18, 2002.

I've had a couple problems, but both could be blamed on the sheer age of the bodies & incompetent repairpersons. My c.1959 M3's shutter locked up soon after purchase & required a CLA (paid by seller) & my c.1961 M2 had a weird light leak that was recently fixed by DAG (he blames whoever did a previous CLA for incorrectly installing/re-installing the light baffles).

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), May 19, 2002.

The shutter of my M6 wouldn't fully close after firing the shutter. Happened 4 months after a CLA. Was repaired without cost.

-- Bert Keuken (treb@operamail.com), May 19, 2002.

6 months ago the frames in the viewfinder were frozen(didn't change when changing lenses)in my 4-year old 6M. It was repaired in Solms at no costs!

-- Andre Bosmans (a.bosmans@pandora.be), May 19, 2002.

Wow! I feel fortunate. For 20+ years, from my first M4, and then a CL, on to an early # M6, through M6TTLs and now a M-7 ( yet to be proven ) I've experienced zero defects. I've even slipped on ice, swung a M6 with a Noctilux in a big arc and slammed it full force on the pavement and it still worked! Only had to send it for repair of the cosmetics, and to be checked by Leica under Passport warranty. But the pictures I took the remainder of that day were fine. Of the zillions of lenses I've had, only 2 ever needed minor repair: A bought used, 35/pre-ASPH. Lux for a loose ring; and my new 28/2 ASPH. that lost a tiny screw in the front barrel assembly ( shipped to Leica last Friday for Passport repair ). See, God doesn't just protect drunks and children. Although when I'm drunk I do act like a child. Hmmm, maybe that's why I've been so lucky.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 19, 2002.

marc -- let me get this straight. you swung your m6/noctilux in a large arc (i assume by the strap), full force, into concrete and neither lens nor camera suffered anything more than cosmetic damage? leica should repeat that stunt and make it into the best ad ever for camera build quality!!

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 19, 2002.

Hi friends,

Frozen shutters on a very beat up M2 and my M6 classic (1986).

Stephen Gandy's repair service fixed it for $175 + $34 shipping. I'm thinking of sending him my M2.

Cheers,

Alex

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), May 19, 2002.

Almost 20 years ago I bought a very used black paint M4. After a couple of months I noticed occasional strange triangular black spots on the right-hand edge of some negatives. I thought at the time it was a light leak problem,but weird because it wasn't consistent. And only at 1/1000, which I rarely used. So I sent it in to Leitz. They said it would take 3 weeks, ended up being 3 months, but when I got it back it was like new and never had another problem. Well, the framelines were a little finicky, no big deal.

After reading this forum, the "light leak" was most likely shutter curtain bounce. Fixable.

I have 2 1971 vintage Nikon Fs, Chevy small blocks to the Leica's German precision, perhaps, but solid. And no messy foam to die and cause problems - just like Leica M.

(Caution - use of Leica and Nikon systems on the same day can cause dyslexia... :)

Carey

-- Carey Russ (careyruss@earthlink.net), May 19, 2002.

Yes Roger, by the strap. The camera hit almost straight on edge and it sure looked bad. When they repaired it all, the lens mount flange had also bent a bit and had to be replaced. Like I said, God protects drunks and children..and evidently stupid Leica owners who don't have enough brains to avoid the ice patch. Actually it's an even more idiotic act on my part, considering it was the second time I had done the same thing. Prior to that I had slipped with a Canon F1 that also survived a bone cracking pounding. The pentaprism and top plate took most of the hit on that one. Winter in Michigan is a damned dangerous place to be with a camera.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 19, 2002.

The only thing I ever needed replaced was a new hood and/or whole lens for the 2/35A problem re alignment as discussed earlier. Took me 20 minutes at the store I bought it in, and since then everything is okay. Otherwise, regarding your question, "What ever Broke on your Leica M series camera", the only thing remaining broke, that's me.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), May 19, 2002.

M2: To Focal Point after 40 years of use, for genral CLA and shutter speed adjustment. Back to focal point because the framlines were disappearing on the left side. Back again for rangefinder problem.

M6 Classic: bought it used; sent to Focal Point for rangefinder problem.

Both cameras are Okay now.

35mm Summaron in 1968: had grease dripping from the diaphragm blades.

Leitz tabletop tripod: ball head fell apart.

My Dad's IIIf, circa 1959: Film chip (Ektachrome) caught in shutter.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), May 19, 2002.

An M3 had a light leak in the shutter, a broken gear tooth in the film transport and a misaligned focussing arm. Between Reinhold Mueller and Gerry Smith it was tixed up good as new. Two M4's and three M6's have all been perfect.

-- Paul Chefurka (paul@chefurka.com), May 19, 2002.

My M4 shutter curtain fell off. It cost too much to repair and CLA. I sold it and bought a M6TTL. Amazingly the broken M4 contributed half the price of a new M6TTL.

-- Nick Chi (lulu96813@yahoo.com), May 19, 2002.