I would like to take some pictures for local architects. Houses don't move, so speed, of film or lens, is not an issue. I am thinking of colour print film, perhaps Fuji Reala. I need a new wideangle lens, but which one? Voigtlander seems a cost-effective option, but 15, 21, 25, or 25? I am tempted by the 15.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), May 21, 2002

Answers

David, architects are notoriously picky about such things as converging lines, etc. What you need is a perspective control lens. It will allow you to photograph buildings without tipping the camera up (which makes them look as if they were falling over backward). What you do NOT need is a 15, which is too wide for most uses.

I do most architectural work with a medium-format Fuji GX680, which has the rising/falling/shifting/tilting front movements of a view camera. My most-used lens is the 80mm, which has about the same angle of view as a 40mm lens on a 35mm camera. I also have a Nikkor 35mm PC lens which I use on my Canon EOS cameras via an adapter.

At some point I may get the Canon 24mmTS (tilt/shift) lens, but so far have been able to get by just fine without it.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), May 21, 2002.

Dave; what an excellent answer! If one is on a shoestring budget one still may get good results.. One thing is to have a small level to insure that the cameras back is vertical. If the camera is tilted up or down; the buildings will look wrong. Use a tripod when one uses a level.....The swings and tilts of Davids view camera allow alot of control. One can offset the camera from a bad object (lightpole); and use all the fancy lens & film tilts to make the build appear correct....I recently got a 35mm PC nikkor for the Nikon F off of ebay for about 200 dollars....It has about an 11 mm shift...

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 21, 2002.

by a cheap, used 4x5 with a 90mm or wider lens. don't even consider getting into architectural photogarphy with a 35mm. (altho if you must, chec out the zork devices, available at ken hansen photo in NYC.)

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 21, 2002.

Well, an even less expensive way to get the job done is to use a wide angle lens you already have and correct it with the perspective controls in PhotoShop. Just give yourself a little extra around the subject when shooting so there's enough image edge to edge after you adjust.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 21, 2002.

Marc:

You are correct if one has a computer and Photoshop. For the cost of the needed computer outfit and a legit copy of Photoshop, one can buy an excellent used 4x5 camera and 90mm WA lens and do it right with much better quality, I venture to say.

Also, David, unless one does use Photoshop, most architectural work is done on transparency film. These days, for pro work, slides are scanned on high-end drum scanners and output digitally direct to printing presses or to digital processes such as Fuji Frontier or other digital media which are FANTASTIC.

Cheers and keep the lines parallel.

-- RICHRRD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), May 21, 2002.

What Roger said...

In addition to the converging lines that Dave mentions, you also have to worry about distortion and falloff (which cannot be easily corrected for in PS). All of these issues are minimized with a view camera, and even a simple 4x5 with an older 90 will make an ideal architectural outfit. You might consder renting one for one of your assignments; if you do, you'll probably never bother to shoot architecture again without one.

Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), May 21, 2002.

Another possibility, if the building isn't too tall, is to use a wide, non-PC lens to take in the whole building without tilting the camera. This will give you a lot of foreground, but if you can find something of visual interest in the foreground, it can make for a great photograph. Many of the photos in my Rock City Barns book (for which I did NOT use a PC lens) were done this way. It was a real challenge to take whatever the situation gave me and make something out of it, and resulted in many of the best photos.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), May 21, 2002.

If you use an R Leica, the best bet is the 28mm PC-Super Angulon R. Much more flexible than setting up a 4X5, and for most purposes perfectly adequate. Unless you go to a very expensive Sinar, Canham or comparable, the adjustments on a 4X5 will not be precise enough to give you much advantage over a first-rate 35mm. Also good wide angle lenses for view cameras cost as much as the PC Super Angulon.

-- Jack Matlock (jfmatlo@attglobal.net), May 21, 2002.

"Unless you go to a very expensive Sinar, Canham or comparable, the adjustments on a 4X5 will not be precise enough to give you much advantage over a first-rate 35mm."

Oh I don't know about that. When I took an architectural photo course at the junior college, I checked out a 4x5 Cambo. A nice little (?) camera that doesn't cost a fortune. I also checked out a 90mm lens, as Jack Flesher recommended. I got very nice results, and had no problems with adjustments. It is the right way to go, for best results. I'll also mention that I get very acceptable results with my 35mm PC-shift Nikkor. It doesn't have the control of a view camera, but converging verticals, the biggest single issue with buildings, is at least controlled well.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), May 21, 2002.

A very neat camera is the Horseman VH-R, which is a 2x3 technical field camera that takes rollfilm backs. It has drop-in cams that couple a number of lenses from 65-180mm (Horseman's own lenses, made by Toyo Kogaku better known as the mfr of Topcon SLR's in the 60's...or any 4x5 lens in a #0 shutter will fit in a Horseman board) to a built-in rangefinder and (separate) viewfinder with bright lines for each focal length. Both the viewfinder and back rotate for vertical composition without turning the camera. The front standard has rise, fall, fwd and reverse tilt, and side shift. The rear of the camera can also be tilted. You can usually pick up the body and 3 lenses for under $1500. I had one of these, it was a nice setup.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), May 21, 2002.

If you're using negative film, can't you also corrective for perspective using the enlarger?

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), May 21, 2002.

There are two issues that other forum members may want to respond to. One is the issue of the use of your photos. If they will be used for publication, then 35mm. will be fine. If they are to be used for marketting brochures, then medium format may be necessary.

Item two is interior versus exterior. Most exterior work is done with available light on a tripod. Medium format with bellows or 35 mm. with PC lens work well there. As mentioned earlier, perspective control can be done with any lens by keeping it level. The most challenging area IMHO is interior photography with artificial lighting. I think that this really separates the pros from the amateurs. Wide-angle lenses work well here, but if you don't know how to balance light, you're shooting in the dark. There are books dedicated to interior lighting and most equipment that can be rented. Any suggestions?

Cheers, Pat.

-- Pat Dunsworth (pdunsworth@aryarch.com), May 21, 2002.

If you can't find a way to use a view camera (highly recommended, and use slide film), another alternative is to use a wide enough lens to include the top of the buiding when the camera is vertical and level, then crop off the unused portion at the bottom. Converging verticals fixed, at the expense of enlargement ratio.

Joe

-- Joe Buechler (jbuechler@toad.net), May 21, 2002.

Thanks everyone, as usual, for the comprehensive answers. As usual, I am in a bit of a hurry and shall digest them at leisure. Just briefly: this is a part-time venture, not a full-scale career and I don't want to spend megabucks and invest in a brand new system just yet, though 4x5 would be fascinating. The PC lens SLR suggestion is good, so are wideangles, and I agree absolutely about converging verticals and available light. Why slides, when the end rsult required is often prints, and/or CD? How about other Leitz RF lenses? Thanks again...must dash!

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), May 22, 2002.

Being an Architect, I'd like to respond. I work at a fairly large corporate firm which employees photographers on a continuous basis. Work is done with 35mm slide, or digital. Why 35mm slide? Our marketing department has a huge inventory of slides, and photo CD's which are constantly being used in in-house desktop publishing proposals. (Scanned with a 4000 dpi film scanner, I might add.) Also, Architects are notorious photo hounds themselves, with many smaller firms doing their own photography. About fifteen years ago, I saw an amazing exhibit where the photographer used a Leica M + a 16mm (?) Zeiss. The big secret is to use a step ladder and get up high. Also there is also nothing wrong with highly stylized work (converging lines) either, but it really has to be stunning. We have a number of display photos done this way. Believe it or not, a lens would be at the bottom of my list. If I were going into this type of work, the very first thing I would buy is a high quality, studio, tripod that goes up high, and needs a small step ladder to use at max height. The second would be a 4000dpi film/slide scanner and 13x19 photo printer with archival quality of at least 25 years. It almost seems as if you have the idea that you can buy a lens and some film, take a few pictures, have them developed at Walmart, and make a couple of hundred bucks, and indeed, you might, for one job. But it's that repeat business that makes a successful career. Have you actually approached any of the firms you're interested in doing business with to see what their requirements might be? I would contact their marketing dept (or person) and talk with them, see what they'd like to see in a initial interview. And consider the fact that you'll probably need to make some sort of marketing proposal yourself at some point.

-- Glenn Travis, RA (leciaddict@hotmail.com), May 22, 2002.

Excellent advice Glen. As to the approach I mentioned (Existing equipment and PhotoShop controls ) I assumed the poster has a computer as he is asking on this forum. And most people have some form of an imaging program if they shoot photographs. However, if David is looking to get into this to any degree, Glens' advice is right on the money.

-- Marc Williams (mwilliams111313MI@comcast.net), May 22, 2002.

In general, architects prefer large format. Perspective control is a must. No one can tilt the verticals to be arty all the time and get away with it. That's called being lazy. If you don't want to get a 4x5 with a 90mm lens, buy a used Nikon and get a 28mm PC-Nikkor, along with that big tripod. Can't recommend the R-cameras, only because I can't guess at the price/availability of the Leica PC lenses. and first, get a copy of Norman McGrath's book, "Photographing Buildings Inside and Out". It's essential.

-- Mark Sampson (MSampson45@aol.com), May 22, 2002.

The bible for architectural photography is Julius Shulman's "Photographing Architecture and Its Interiors". If you're not familiar with Shulman's work, you need to be. The Ansel Adams of the built environment, he was the foremost chronicler of MidCentury Modernism in Southern California (and across the globe, for that matter). Very famous photographs you'll probably recognize of the Case Study Homes and structures by Charles Eames, Richard Neutra, Pierre Koenig, and others.

Frank Lloyd Wright said of his Shulman's pictures of Taliesin West that they were the best photographs ever taken of any of his buildings. No small compliment from the monster/genius of modern architecture himself!

-- Luke Dunlap (luked@mail.utexas.edu), May 22, 2002.

Seems architectural photography is a Serious Business, not to be undertaken by amateurs, and most of you reckon Leica ain't up to it. Cripes, all I wanted to do was take some occasional "happy snaps" for some architects I know. As the editor of a monthly lifestyle and home features section, I write about them and se their work on a regular basis. Many of these guys here in New Zealand are one-man bands, they do not have glitzy PR departments or American-size budgets with squillions of dollars to throw around (more's the pity). Even our big brother neighbours the Aussies can be modest sometimes. Glenn Murcutt, this year's Pritzker Prize winner, is definitely a one-man band. You can check out pictures of his work on www.pritzkerprize.co. Strewth, he even had the gall to take some pictures himslef and they're pretty damn good. What's wrong with "minimalism", "less is more" or "form follows function" - architectural dicta which could well apply to Leica BTW? Few people have bothered to answer my original question? This IS supposed to be a Leica forum after all!? Glen: tried to reply off-list but my email address boomeranged. As for scanning, I wouldn't attempt it, I'd get it done professionally. Happy snapping, folks!

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), May 22, 2002.

Glen, sorry, your email address didn't work.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), May 22, 2002.