Greetings, All:

My M7 also "forgot" it was loaded with Supra 400 recently, though it initially detected it correctly. When partially through a roll, it flashed ASA 100 when turned on several times in a row (this maneuver on the part of the M7 was associated with a "What the ***?" sound-track from yours truly); then it got with the program again and flashed ASA 400. Having shot with Canon EOS bodies for many years now, without this ever having been a concern (indeed, I hadn't considered it even to be a possible problem!) and noting that a recent post concerning Velvia in the M7 also noted a similar problem, I am curious as to how common an occurrence this is proving to be.

Thank you for any light you can shed on this. Best, Matt

-- Matt Sachs (mattsachs@attbi.com), May 29, 2002

Answers

Matt. You will never find out how common is this occurrence by counting the fraction of people who post they have problems. This is simply because it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that people who have a problem (and are thus upset) will post than than people who do not have the problem (and are satisfied) will post. If someone asked the question of how many Canon EOS cameras misread the DX coding you would similarly accumulate a series of posts about the same problem. [Just because you haven't had the problem with Canon EOS, doesn't mean that others gaven't had it.] Conclusions drawn from the responses are more likely to generate heat than to shed light on the subject.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 29, 2002.

Eliot's point is well taken. For curiosity, I searched the EOS3 archives on yahoogroups with "DX," since I have read postings there for a long time and didn't recall this being a discussion point, and found two independent occurrences out of more than 10,000 posts from 1999 (the beginning of the archives) onward reporting this problem (numbers 4696 and 7250). In both cases, the problem was only with ASA 200 film. So, that several of the relatively small group of M7 users who also read this group have encountered this problem with two different films in the short time they've had their cameras may already be significant.

-- Matt Sachs (mattsachs@attbi.com), May 29, 2002.

Elliott , thanks to people like you Leica can get away with shoddy quality control and outdated production methods. The only reason I read this forum is to find out if other people are having the same quality and mechanical problems I have had with using Leica equipment over the years, and yes other people are also having the same or similar problems. If you take the trouble to read other sites and threads, you will find that, compared to other non-autofocus 35mm cameras, Leica products don't seem to do as well as their reputation suggests. Reading the problems and associated cures on this site has enabled me to continue to use my Leica gear, instead of selling it all in frustration.

Despite associated problems, I still use Leica system for my work, where suitable, but this does not mean I have to turn a blind eye on all its short comings.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank John Collier for his vast knowledge and polite advise. I have benefited a lot from his contributions.

-- sait (akkirman@clear.net.nz), May 29, 2002.

Elliott , thanks to people like you Leica can get away with shoddy quality control and outdated production methods. The only reason I read this forum is to find out if other people are having the same quality and mechanical problems I have had with using Leica equipment over the years, and yes other people are also having the same or similar problems. If you take the trouble to read other sites and threads, you will find that, compared to other non-autofocus 35mm cameras, Leica products don't seem to do as well as their reputation suggests. Reading the problems and associated cures on this site has enabled me to continue to use my Leica gear, instead of selling it all in frustration.

Despite associated problems, I still use Leica system for my work, where suitable, but this does not mean I have to turn a blind eye on all its short comings.

The problems I refer to are accuracy ( or rather lack of) of shutters and rangefinding systems.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank John Collier for his vast knowledge and polite advise. I have benefited a lot from his contributions.

-- sait (akkirman@clear.net.nz), May 29, 2002.

Eliot,

Dare i say that may be true for M6 users, but I'm not too sure the number of M7 users that regularly visit Leica fora is sufficiently high to allow discarding "a few" converging reports of problems...

Let's say we have around 15 M7 users on this forum right now (?). If 5 report problems, that is a high proportion !

-- Jacques (jacquesbalthazar@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

Thanks for the heads up. When I get my M7 I will be sure to only shoot 100 ASA film :)

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), May 29, 2002.

Dear Leica friend, I just had the same problem with my first rolls, I posted recently my problem with VELVIA films. Solutions, you turn the rewind button, so the cartidge moves lightly in the camera and the contact becomes better. Definitive solution (I didn' have the problem yet, for 35 films), I cleaned carefully with alcohol the camera DX code contacts and wipe the film cartridge DX code before usage. Best regards from Belgium Michel

-- michel vandeput (michel.vandeput@ville.namur.be), May 29, 2002.

As Leica are well known to not be all that in the electonics department, I wonder why they added DX coding in the first place?, maybe its the same whizz who decided to add TTL flash metering to the M6?

-- Karl Yik (karl.yik@dk.com), May 29, 2002.

Sait. I was responding to the methodology of determining how common the occurrence of misreading the DX code is in the M7 based on a small number of people using this forum who choose to post their experiences. I have no problem with people posting their particular experiences (as anecdotes) for the benefit of others who may wish to know about potential problems to look out for.

I am aware of Leica's problems with quality assurance, and I don't think that they should be under-estimated, but neither should they be over-estimated. Indeed, the DX code reading may be a legitimate problem, only time will tell. But consider this. What fraction of the original number of M6s and M7s will still be useable and fully functional in 40 years (assuming there is still film)? 25 years? 15 years? 5 years? Now substitute Nikon F4s and Canon EOS3s for Leica M6s and M7s.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 29, 2002.

I meant to add... Jacques. You make a good point. If five of 15 regular users of this forum post problems with a particular Leica item, it could very well be significant, even though the sample number is small. Indeed if two of 15 regular users have problems, I might be concerned. But as I have mentioned, people who infrequently use the forum or who never before use the forum may be more likely to search for others who have had the same problem and to post here, while people who are satisfied and have not had the problem are less likely to post. That was the only point I was trying to make - definitely NOT saying that Leica doesn't have problems with QA.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 29, 2002.

This morning I loaded a fresh roll of TMY400 in the M7 I am using, turned it off, then back on, and it flashed 25 and gave a shutter exposure appropriate to ISO 25. I turned it off and on again twice more with the same indications. Finally, it flashed 400. I made sure that the canister was seated properly, and that the DX setting was correct.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), May 29, 2002.

Tony, this exact same thing happend to me with different film (Kodak TCN400 c-41). Has not reocurred since and I've been shooting alot.

-- tristan (emulsion71@hotmail.com), May 29, 2002.

I use an M7, one of the first in my area. I have yet to see any problems with the camera and have put over 100 rolls in it so far. (ranging from Velvia to Neopan 1600. DX has read the film each and every time accurately and all of the rolls have turned out as expected.

I can only assume that if you are having DX related issues, you have a faulty canister. (oil/dirt etc.) The DX sensors in a camera work by creating an electrical conductive path, the black squares are paint that isn't conductive. If your camera is missing the speed, its most likely because there is something on the shiny part of the canister that is interfering with the electrical path. All you can really do is re-adjust the canister or make sure its clean before going in.

--Mark Cohen

-- Mark Cohen (markc@creativephoto.com), May 29, 2002.

Don't have an M7 - and there are no problems with the one I DON'T have. =8^o

But - this sounds like it could be a mechanical OR an electronic flaw. Most DX cameras have swing-open backs - which tend to positively press the casette against the DX contacts.

With its bottom-loading, where the casette has to have a loose enough fit to slide in and out, I would think there is more possibility that a casette in the M7 could shift a bit and lose contact, fully or partially, which would 'reset' the DX to the default 100, or to an erroneous 25, e.g.

Which, I expect, makes no difference whatsoever to someone whose shots are screwed up!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 29, 2002.

You CAN set the ASA/ISO manually on the M7...can't you???? I've not handled one so I don't know. I always set the film speed on my F5 and F100's so as not to have a mistake.

-- Todd Phillips (toddvphillips@webtv.net), May 29, 2002.

I have had problems with DX coding twice in the past. Both times with Nikon cameras (N90s and F100). So, now I set the film speed manually on all cameras, including the M7. I have never trusted those 5¢ film cartridges. Having said that, I may try it with the M7 just to see if it works.

-- Richard Patterson (rharoldp@aol.com), May 29, 2002.

Can the film speed be manually set with the M7?

I'm thinking about upgrading my M6 to an M7, but I bulk-load my film. None of my cartridges are DX encoded -- just the plain black plastic cartridges.

Is it possible to bypass these DX/electrical issues by setting film speed manually?

-- Kelso Lundeen (KelsoLundeen@hotmail.com), May 30, 2002.

Kelso - Yes, the M7 dial can be set to a specific speed, instead of "DX". But some users have already complained that the MANUAL film-speed dial can ALSO get knocked out of position - by rubbing against clothes, etc.

And a little pin-prick diode in the viewfinder blinks constantly and perpetually if you are not using DX. I didn't find it overly distracting once I got used to it (I don't have a -7 but have tried several in stores) because it's tiny, like a decimal point in the shutter-speed readout - but some people hate it.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), May 30, 2002.