Imagine a world without Christ.

For a moment just imagine Christ was not sent into the world by the Father. The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah. What would this world be without the Messiah ?

Your opinions are invited, bearing in mind the effect it would have on various aspects - like Spirituality, Jewish religion, Wars, economy, business, finance, morality, etc etc.

Peace & Blessings

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), May 31, 2002

Answers

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-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), May 31, 2002.

Interesting question Xavier. Would this mean we would still be living under the Old Testament's rules? Not only of diet, but also under their rules of justice? Or would society have evolved toward our more appropriate means of punishment without Jesus having been begotten?

I don't know. I would like to think that Christianity had a lot to do with society's evolution.

Looking forward to reading other people's thoughts on this.

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), May 31, 2002.

As this thread develops I hope people are able to seperate Eastern/Western/European/North Amercian/Asian societies.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 31, 2002.

That's kind of a strange question... not sure what you're getting at. Offhand, I would say the world would still be going to Hell. That is what the Messiah is for, right? To allow us the Beatific Vision.

The only answer I can give is a platitude: we would still be waiting. Thats all.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), May 31, 2002.

My thoughts today on your thread is to look at the middle east turmoil as it I feel reflects your question.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), May 31, 2002.

Without the Messiah, there would be no hope, no compassion, no forgiveness, - no order. I can't imagine what it would be like.

What would the world fight about? Ireland has been fighting in the name of religion for centuries. The Middle East has been fighting for thousands of years in the name of religion. The Spanish Inquisition was about religion. Someone always wants to be in control, thinking their way is the only way - whether it be religion, land, whatever - in the end it is always about control. Hate builds up in people's hearts over the years and hardened hearts become so blind to the truth - they believe what they have heard for centuries.

Then, again, I do not believe that 'religious' wars are about religion at all. Wars of any kind are always about power and control. Religion is an excuse for war....but, IMHO, religion has nothing to do with war.

If Osama really believed in God, do you think He would have done what He did? The people who followed Osama, were brainwashed from the time they were very young to believe what they did - going to heaven and meet 7 virgins, etc...I find it so hard to believe that these terrorists really believed that...but religion is taught to us from when we are very young, isn't it?

Some people find it hard to understand how we believe what we do.

-- MaryLu (mcl327@juno.com), June 02, 2002.

Imagine a world where the Jews are waiting for the Messiah. They are still living under the same old testament laws. Same Jewish diet laws. Same laws & customs as they were or are.

I know this thread is very funny, but the reason for starting it is just to share a little creative ideas, imagination, thoughts.

I feel that the Jews would have definitely kill more than what Christians have killed(as it is a part of the law). They would have been financially all powerful.

But there also would be a class or a section who would be oppressed by the majority and the religious sects namely the Pharsies, rabbis. Which would ultimately result in people declaring physically powerfull ones as the ultimate Messiah. This would only multiply the number of Messiah. May be every country or region would have their own Messiah.

Banks would be functioning with the interest structure. Criminals would be slaughtered mercilessly. Economic prosperity would be restricted only to the Jewish people. The people of other faiths which are idolatry according to the jewsih law would be living under poverty line.

The role of woman in the society would be restricted. They may be to some extent decent(no offense please) A Jew would have right to marry as many wifes he can afford and divorce also.

Sabbath would be strictly observed. Failure to observe would invite death penalty.

The temple of Jerusalem would be in its full splendor. Jerusalem would be like America. Its religious significance would ultimately turn it into a business center, some what like NASDAQ or LONDON Stock Exchange. The Pharsee would be on top position. They would reserve all the top position for their family members. They would also be partial.

Given a thought that the Roman Empire existed in this time, then partial Europe would have been ruled by the romans and there would be many uprisings. The Jews and Romans would have fought many record breaking wars.

Then there would also be a section of enlighten Jews(broad minded) who would not be practising their faith. They would be against the Pharasee and their laws.

Animals would be treated like any assests(because they would be required for religious sacrifices) and would probably be recorded in their Financial Profit and loss accounts at the year ending as assests.

There would be plenty of swine but no one would dare to eat it. Synagogue would be every where.

Since it would be a long time since the last Prophet(Malachi) the Jewish faith would only end up in ritual. It will not be as Spiritual as the Christian faith is.

And ........many many more things.

Peace & Blessings

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), June 04, 2002.

OOPS ! Read as

Banks would be functioning without the interest structure.

Peace * Blessings

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), June 04, 2002.

--Xavier, >Look:

Imagine a world where the Jews are waiting for the Messiah. They are still living under the same old testament laws. Same Jewish diet laws. Same laws & customs as they were or are. I know this thread is very funny, but the reason for starting it is just to share a little creative ideas,''

I got that far before I started getting very sick to my stomach. If this is humorous, so is bad breath, halitosis.

We know the difference between a Messiah being ''expected'' in the future, and the Messiah who has already arrived, died and arisen from the dead. The Incarnation is a revealed truth. Nothing you imagine here would have been so, except that the world would yet be awaiting its Saviour. I don't find the subject of Jewish evils in the world very //- Kosher -\\ for making fun of in a Catholic forum. I have great respect and sympathy for Jews. Some are very great, some are less great.
Same as me and you. PERIOD.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 04, 2002.

Eugene,

Just as I have the right to express myself on this forum so do you. For your info this thread was never invented to hurt the Jews. The people who posted their opinions prior to your post know it well.

You say that you "....started getting sick to my stomach...bad breath ". Thats fine Sir. But no body forced you to eat the food which according to you is kosher and making fun of in a catholic forum.

I have many Jewish friends, and I too respect them and admire their culture, traditions just as you do. Hope you will not misunderstand me.

Greetings & Peace !

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), June 05, 2002.

It isn't because you haven't the right, Xavier. It's because your words make all the culture of the Old Testament a farce.

Economic prosperity would be restricted only to the Jewish people. The people of other faiths which are idolatry according to the Jewish law would be living under poverty line. Plenty of swine but no one would dare to eat it. Sabbath would be strictly observed. Failure to observe would invite death penalty. A Jew would have right to marry as many wifes he can afford and divorce also.

HA!!! You make it sound like Christ only came to stop Jews from beating me up! And to take away the ''Jewish Problem''. Nothing I can see without some fault attributed to the people of Israel.

Tell us, in this milieu; why would Mary the virgin be chosen to bear the Son of God? He would have found little of virtue around a place like Nazareth, according to your scenario. Would John the Baptist have had them coming to the Jordan for a baptism? Maybe John would have told each one, ''Put your shekel in the pot here by my side. Then I'll baptise you.''

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 05, 2002.