I have just obtained a new book titled " A New Religious America " Auth: Diana L. Eck Pub: 2001. Has anyone read or is aware of this author? Those who read historical paperbacks please do not reply.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 01, 2002

Answers

Hi Jean, sorry to push in on this thread but did you get my e-mail?

-- Courtenay (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 02, 2002.

Courteny - I did not receive your E:Mail - try again please.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 02, 2002.

On another thread, Jean wrote:

"MaryLu - I do not recall stating that on this thread at all as it is not my thread..."

OK, Jean, here's the thread. What is the meaning of "Those who read historical paperbacks please do not reply"? Just curious who you're trying to belittle.

Thanks,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), June 02, 2002.

The book is called "A New Religious America: How a 'Christian Country' Has Now Become the World's Most Religiously Diverse Nation."

A "Christian Science Monitor" review is here.

This is a sociology book by a Methodist. It has nothing to do with Catholicism.

This is a Catholic forum (see first word at top of home page. M. Bouchard, kindly confine non-Catholic threads (such as this one) to a different forum.

-- + (+@+.+), June 02, 2002.

"This is a sociology book by a Methodist. It has nothing to do with Catholicism."

Oh of course how could an evil Methodist ever enhance our faith?

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 02, 2002.

Mateo, Jean brings joy to many here and should be celebrated for the wonderful gifts he brings. If you don’t appreciate what Jean is posting then post something interesting yourself. This place is already full of deadheads who only want to criticise, don’t jump on the bandwagon. Why dont you inspire me with something great like you are so blessed to do?

I’ll say this if what I hear from others is true then I don’t agree with Jean’s view of Catholicism either, I’m a rather orthodox Catholic but I can be civil. Some cannot. Jean is merely requesting that a certain individual who has proven himself incapable of responding civilly to Jeans posts leave his ‘thoughts’ (lets call them that) to himself.

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 02, 2002.

Thank yu Kiwi as some have now to stand up to the brutes here that flog their constricted idea. CATHOLIC=UNIVERSAL.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 03, 2002.

Hi Kiwi,

I hope I don't sound uncharitable, but here's my response! :-)

Kiwi writes:

"Mateo, Jean brings joy to many here and should be celebrated for the wonderful gifts he brings."

If I wanted to talk about REALLY off-topic things, I don't think it would be appropriate to post here. As an example: I want to bring up creatures from Greek mythology...let's say I've got a great story about a Cyclops. Well, what does this have to do with Catholicism? Christianity? Unfortunately, nothing. Neither does the golem mythology have any reason to be on a Catholic forum.

It may sound cold, but the forum (as I understand it) isn't a feel-good forum. We needn't concern ourselves if "Jean brings joy" to everyone here. If his posts are totally off-topic (like his golem myth), they belong on another forum: maybe devoted to Jewish mysticism and myths.

Regarding his gifts: well, I'll say that Jean is a creative individual. I've seen this in his writings. That said, if I identified with his point of view, I'd probably be in big trouble--I get the impression that his beliefs are as agile as a butterfly. They might look nice, but heck if they'll ever stay in one place!

Kiwi writes:

"If you don?t appreciate what Jean is posting then post something interesting yourself."

An excellent idea! I'm a bit reserved when it comes to posting new topics...I want them to be interesting. Also, when I have questions about my faith, I find the answer too quickly with Google (before I get to this forum). :-(

All I can say is, you've got a good point.

Kiwi writes:

"This place is already full of deadheads who only want to criticize, don?t jump on the bandwagon."

I know, I know. It's bad to play the critique; but here's my reasoning. Jean himself consistently stereotypes faithful Catholics (especially bishops and priests) as hypocrites. This is ironic coming from a person of Jewish ancestry, because that's one of the mechanisms that the Nazi-German government used to demonize Jews. Let's try some Nazi stereotypes:

1) Jews live in luxury off the labors of suffering, ordinary Germans.

2) Jews live a life of constant deception--they can't be trusted.

OK...now let's move on to Jean stereotypes:

1) Jesuits live in luxury off the labors of suffering, ordinary Catholics.

2) Jesuits live a life of constant deception [Jean calls it talking out of both sides of their mouths]--they can't be trusted.

The Nazi's had their scapegoat, and Jean has his. He likes to blame an awful lot on priests (especially Jesuits and bishops).

Now, why do I criticize? Because when a forum contributor criticizes others' beliefs, he or she is implicitly accepting the same level of scrutiny from others. In fact, I didn't (and don't) have the slightest problem with this thread--I think it's an interesting one--I even went to Amazon.com to read the reviews of the book. I had a simple little question--why the backhanded insult? If Jean likens himself as a non-judgmental person, than this pattern of negative comments is betraying his claim.

Kiwi writes:

"Why dont you inspire me with something great like you are so blessed to do?"

OK, flattery will get you everywhere! :-) Anyway, I do feel the need to voice my opinions, even if they're not totally positive. It's just a matter of being true to myself. I try to be charitable in all of my posts. It just seems that Jean wants to throw Catholicism a sucker-punch sometimes. He seems to have a genuine theological hostility toward Christians--those who believe that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God. I guess we're all too closed-minded.

Kiwi writes:

"I?ll say this if what I hear from others is true then I don?t agree with Jean?s view of Catholicism either, I?m a rather orthodox Catholic but I can be civil. Some cannot. Jean is merely requesting that a certain individual who has proven himself incapable of responding civilly to Jeans posts leave his ?thoughts? (lets call them that) to himself."

I hope that I'm being civil toward Jean. I have seen that he's been a bit evasive of my questions...that's his right, just as it's my right to post.

Jean is a pretty civil contributor...he doesn't explode at anyone. His way of attacking others is to either patronize or belittle. If he (or I, for that matter), use such methods, I think it's just fine to criticize. He's showing an automatic disrespect for others on the forum. Why didn't he just say, "I don't want Mr. X, Mr. Y, and Mr. Z to contribute."? It wouldn't have been charitable; but at least he'd have been more honest with the forum.

Well, that's my thoughts. :-)

Enjoy,

Mateo

PS--Jean, do you still have too much pride to admit that it's uncharitable for you to belittle others? Or maybe you'd like to expound on the last sentence of your original question.

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), June 03, 2002.

Matt - your a case in point when I asked those paperback readers to avoid this thread. Thinking seems to come very hard for some on this forum. More like the three monkeys - see-hear-speak - no evil.

As to Jesuits I saw this - as to Bishops we are aware of the convelutions of the style of feeding the sheep. Let us see what June 16th Dallas brings for the American Catholic Church. Shall we?

The point of the thread is hopefully to have an intelligent conversation on the effects of other religions that have now become a part of America. Where do/will Catholics fit in? Any thoughts??

We are facing a new millinium and future here.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), June 03, 2002.

Jean writes:

"Matt - your a case in point when I asked those paperback readers to avoid this thread."

Well, thanks! Hahaha. I still don't see why you have a need to put yourself on an intellectual pedestal. It makes less sense when you then decry that there's too much intellectualism on the forum! How can there be too much intellectualism when you feel that you're the only intellectual here!?!?!? :-) Strange, indeed...

Jean writes:

"Thinking seems to come very hard for some on this forum. More like the three monkeys - see-hear-speak - no evil."

This is a bit of a non sequitur. First, you accuse others of not thinking...then you accuse others of knowingly living in denial. Two different things...

Jean writes:

"As to Jesuits I saw this - as to Bishops we are aware of the convelutions of the style of feeding the sheep."

That's funny, the Nazi's also saw the Jews first-hand. Then, they started using that as a reason to commit genocide. Bottom line--"specific to general" is poor logic. It was wrong of the Nazis to stereotype...it's wrong for you to stereotype.

Jean writes:

"The point of the thread is hopefully to have an intelligent conversation on the effects of other religions that have now become a part of America. Where do/will Catholics fit in? Any thoughts??"

Well, the Catholic's role is this--imitate Jesus Christ. Religion isn't a popularity contest. It is a matter of standing by Truth.

Just FYI, as little as 40 years ago, Catholics were viewed as the "religious invaders" by some of Protestant America. We have no monopoly on American religion. Further, unlike many Protestants, we are not an American religion. We are a world-wide religion.

This book focuses on three religions: Buddhism, Islam, and Hindus. One at a time:

1) Buddhism. It's no secret that, since their founding, the Jesuits have sent missions out to Central and Eastern Asia. Vietnam comes to mind as a country with both religions--it's certainly not unique. In the case of Vietnam, the Catholics were (until ~1975), an affluent community. Korea also has a large Buddhist population, while it's current president is a Catholic Christian. Our Asian brothers and sisters have a lot to teach us.

As a random addition, here's a Buddhist-Catholic dialog group in LA, Calif. Who would have guessed, Jesuits are active in the dialog. :-)

2) Islam--You'll be happy to know that the Jesuit Superior General, Father Kolvenbach, was ordained into the Armenian Catholic Church and taught for a time at the Jesuit University in Beirut. This priest knows something about Islam!

Despite persecution by Muslims all over the Middle East, we Catholics have long lived side-by-side with Islam. Think of 800 years of Muslim control of Spain, the Coptic Church in Egypt, and the Chaldean-Rite Catholics (as well as others) in Iraq, to name a few. Once again, we've got plenty of Catholic brothers and sisters who have experienced living in a majority Muslim country. I'm not betting on America becoming a majority Muslim country. But, once again, we Catholics are part of a religion that has touched all corners of the Earth.

3) Hinduism--ever since St. Thomas, Catholic Christians have been in contact with Hindus. Despite a "non-violent stereotype" that I've always held regarding Hindus, I have heard of attacks on Christian churches in India.

My exposure to Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus has been so extensive (both in-country and abroad), that I have a hard time seeing this as an issue that will ever impact me. These three religious groups come from radically different perspectives--one doesn't really focus on an external God, the other is vehemently monotheistic, and the last is polytheistic. It's not like they're going to "gang up" on Christians and Jews! :-)

That said, I don't think that these three groups are anywhere near as closed-minded and militant as some American atheists, who seek to impose their beliefs on the rest of us. But atheists are not new to the American landscape.

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), June 03, 2002.

There?s what I want to read, thanks Mateo. I?m off to finish my paperback

-- don?t believe ?n grammar! (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 03, 2002.