Dear Sir,

My Name is Wasim John, I am Christian and living in Pakistan. Please help me regarding the issue that, I want to marry with my cousin. She is from my father's family. My Grand father and his brother had their own sons and the sons are cousins not brothers. The girl (who wants to get marry with me and me too) is daughter of my father's cousin. Will Christianity and our Bible allow us to marry or restrict us.

Waiting for your reply

Wasim John

-- Wasim John (wasimjohn@hotmail.com), June 12, 2002

Answers

Top

-- @@@ (..@@........), June 12, 2002.

Hi and Welcome Wasim you have come to the right place for TRUE and proper advice on any Christian matters .You have come to the home of Jesus's Church, The One True and Holy Apotoslic Church- The Catholic Church. I hope things are settling down for in your part of the world, my father is working in India so I have been folowing events rather closely, let us pray for a true reconciliation and lasting peace.

Interesting question. I dont know the answer but if you hang around someone will help you out here- if I was to hazzard a guess I would say NO. From what I understand...The Bible is full of examples of inter marriage between close family members- Adam and Eve for starters and it seems that the early Church was not fussed by close family marriages. Later influenced for various reasons by Roman Civil Law the Church Cannon also banned such marriages. It looks like there is a complicated genalogical table that you can work out who you are allowed to marry.There are a number of terms I dont understand- consanguinity, transverse, impediment of affinity, degrees etc and to confuse you even further the Pope can grant a dispensation. Again I am no expert on such matters of law but there are plenty of people around who are so wait for their replies. Take Care and God Bless Courtenay

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 12, 2002.

sp Apostolic

-- KG (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 12, 2002.

sp canon (ps Fred I know you will delight in finding some more errors in my post but can you just find something else to do please)

-- KG (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 12, 2002.

Really

Find faults? If you put out a fault I will point it out. You have a problem with that? I have faults too and people like Gene and John do help me many times to see what I have said wrong. No problem. Now you decide to moderate? Did Christ not find fault in many people? Are you chasing him away too?

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 12, 2002.

Wasim,

Please excuse the last couple of posts, they do not represent the majority of the forum.

I would like to point out however that you said this cousin is the daughter of your father's cousin. What would this make her, second or third cousin? And also important is whether or not she a blood relative or is she just related through a marriage. I'm not very familiar with Pakistan terminology (like if you would consider the daughter of your uncles brother, if your uncle isn't related to you by blood, a cousin). For instance, my aunt’s (my aunt by marriage not by blood) brother has children that I would not consider blood relatives (almost not even relatives).

I know for a fact that first cousins (like your uncles children) are prohibited from marrying, but 2nd and 3rd cousins, or non-blood relatives I’m not sure of. I hope we get some more decent posts soon to help you out. I will also look up the “law” and the reasons behind it, so that you have no doubts about why and what we Catholic Christians believe. Thank you for stopping by.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), June 12, 2002.

To the anonymous poster

Please feel free to leave this forum as it obviously does not suit you in any way. Yes we Do believe in GOD and his Trinity and furthermore we DO NOT worship the Pope and we do Honor the Laws of the true Church of Christ which he founded through Peter. You are NOT Catholic in the manner you have spoken and are in fact being ignorant to Christ in the manner you have expressed yourself. If you cannot give proper information then I would advise you to just listen and learn. GOD is truth and you are spreading heresy.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 12, 2002.

"As to your question, is it legal in your country, to marry one's cousin? There have been recent scientific reports in this country that marrying one's cousin is acceptable from the medical standpoint" _____________________________________________________________________

That is the MOST IGNORANT statement I have ever heard of and a disgrace to common knowledge and sense. No knowledgeable Medical practictioner would support such a statement. Whoever you are, you have proven your total ignorance clearly. You cannot dupe GOD and his creative powers. A marriage between close relatives is very harmfull and dangerous to the offspring and it is well established medical history and fact.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 12, 2002.

Wasim,

I found some sites that might help:

On genealogy.

On Christian marriage.

More stuff.

There is a chart on this link that shows you two as second cousins, which are given dispensation (or are permitted to marry). It also states that second cousins “have no risk [of their children having birth defects] over non-related marriages”.

One more Link.

I also found this: "Prior to 1983, 2nd cousins were prohibited from marrying too. That is no longer the case."

Now, there is a lot of info out there on the web, and sometimes anti- Catholic / anti-Christian persons try to post stuff that isn't true. And somtimes good Catholics post stuff that isn't necessarily true. So, your best bet is to try and seek counseling with a Catholic priest who should know not only the state law (in Pakistan), but also the Catholic Canon Law. The Catholic Catechism also probably has something.

Hope this helps you out.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), June 12, 2002.

Jake

I still do not think that relations between close relatives is a wise idea as you cannot really rely on limited medical evidence as such. I would first of all consider the MoralLaws of Catholism first. The sources you gave on the medical aspect may not be truly "Catholic" as such. Look at the problems that have occurred in the Jewish race for example. There is a disease in their ranks that has been identified to the frequent intermarriages that have occured for centuries which is prevalent.

I would suggest that you take care to be certain that the sources you use from secular people are indeed valid.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 12, 2002.

WASIM; Our forum Visitor,
Thanks for coming here in a friendly and honest attempt to communicate. You came to a good place. I don't know the direct answer to your questions about marriage. It would require some research.

It's unfortunate how ONE evil person is giving you lies, and pretending to help you in your innocent search for truth. But I hope you can distinguish between the believers and unbelievers here. The person who signs the name < 0000xx > is a servant of the devil. He would like to call himself a believer, but by his works you can see he isn't. He speaks evil of his neighbor. He spreads hatred of Catholics. His motives are inspired by hatred of the truth.

I myself believe he or she was in our forum in the past under a different name. When he/ was put to shame, he left with his tail between his legs, like a cur.

Or maybe it's the woman, we knew as Joan. She was also put to shame. What does it matter? Now he or she returns, afraid to show a real name again. Using 0000xx as a mask. When you have truth in you, you are happy to give your name. I think WASIM is your true name, isn't it? You aren't using a false name. Neither have I. I use my real name and e-mail address. --Because I fear NO evil. The devil fears me; and fears other good Catholics!

Welcome, and learn more about our faith anytime you wish to return here. All of us appreciate your honesty. Goodby, Sir.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), June 12, 2002.

Jmj

Hello, Wasim John.

Jake Huether gave you some good advice about your freedom to marry your relative.
He was correct to identify you as the "second cousin" of the woman you love. Second cousins are children of first cousins.

According to the Code of Canon Law (for the Latin Church), one may not marry someone in his "direct line" (parent, grandparent, child, grandchild).
Nor may one marry someone who is in too close a relationship in a "transverse" or "collateral line" of consanguinity ["blood" relationship]. The normal impediment in Canon Law forbids marriage up to, and including, the "fourth degree of the collateral line" -- which means one's "first cousin" (son or daughter of one's aunt or uncle).

One may never marry a sibling (second degree collateral) or an aunt/uncle/niece/nephew (third degree collateral). But I understand that most bishops will now grant a dispensation to allow the marriage of first cousins (fourth degree collateral).
In your case, there is not even any concern about seeking a dispensation, since you and your second cousin are in "sixth degree of the collateral line." [Count as follows: yourself = 1, your father = 2, your grandfather = 3, his brother = 4, his brother's son = 5, his granddaughter = 6].

One caution: The Eastern Catholic churches have their own Code of Canon Law, to which I do not have access. I am not sure if the Eastern Code has the same or stricter rules on degrees and dispensations. I know that there are many Catholics of Eastern Traditions in your part of the world.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 12, 2002.

Wasim,

I have deleted one post in this discussion from someone who continues to post hateful messages about the Pope and the Catholic Church under various aliases here. If you are wondering what post some posts are refering to when they say "please excuse..." it is no longer there to view.

Moderator

-- Moderator ("Catholic_moderator@hotmail.com"), June 12, 2002.

Wasim,

There are many Christian / Protestant groups active in Pakistan. One thing that you never mentioned in your post is, to what Christian denomination do you belong. Whether you are a Catholic, Lutheren, or other like New Life Fellowship.

If you are a Catholic then I would recommend you to discuss this issue with your Parish priest, who would surely be happy to guide you. Though, there are bigwigs on this forum who would surely give you the right solution. Just wait for more post.

Prayers & Peace

-- Xavier (xavier_david24@yahoo.com), June 13, 2002.

To Your answer Wasim if you read Leviticus chapter 18 and 20 of the bible you should find that it is forbidden by our LordGod to marry or have any sexual relations to our Family members even if some contries allow this it is God who Forbid such things.It is forbidden to marry a family member.

-- David Burkett (Whatalokinfor@yahoo.com), June 14, 2002.

Wasim John,
Do not be troubled by what D. Burkett wrote. If you check Leviticus 18 and 20, you will see that what is forbidden is marriage to much closer relatives than the woman you love. You and she are "second cousins." Such a marriage is not forbidden in Leviticus.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 15, 2002.

Mr Burkett

You better put your blinders on quickly. The many monarchs of the past and present have been inter-marrying for centuries. You lose again. Yes Wasim, may GOD bless you.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 15, 2002.

I know I'm a bit late in finding this thread, but I'm hoping that it's not too late for people to read it.

The Bible is completely supportive of cousin marriages. The Catholic Church has a church law which requires a cousin couple to recieve dispensation, or permission, from the diocese before being allowed to marry. Permission is rarely denied unless there is significant reason to deny it based on a hereditary genetic defect in the family, or multiple incidents of first cousin marriage in the direct ancestrial line of the couple.

As for Pakistani law, cousin marriage is very common there, although I'm not sure if there are restrictions as to the TYPE of cousins (i.e. parallel cousins, cross-cousins, matrilateral or patrilateral cousins).

Here are a few links that will provide a good deal more information:

Interview with a Canon Lawer: http://cousincouples.com/audio/canonlaw.html

The Biblical perspective of cousin marriage: http://www.cuddleinternational.org/religion/biblical.html

The Catholic laws pertaining to cousin marriage: http://www.cuddleinternational.org/religion/catholic.html

International Marriage Laws: http://www.cuddleinternational.org/laws/international-law.html

Frequency of cousin marriage in Pakistan (and all of Asia): http://www.consang.net/Global_Prevalence/content/Asia.pdf (scroll down about half-way)

-- christie smith (c.smith@cuddleinternational.org), August 23, 2002.

Sorry, let me make those into hotlinks...

The Biblical Perspective on Cousin Marriage

Discussion with a Canon Lawyer

Frequ ency in Pakistan (scroll 1/2 way down)

Catho lic Marriage Laws

International Laws

c.smith@cuddleinternational.org), August 23, 2002.

Wasim Christie was right no where is it biblically wrong to marry a cousin ,and I would challenge anyone to produce the scripture where the Lord made it a sin to marry ones cousin. I have been married to my first cousin for 12 years and our son is healhty normal and an A+B honor roll student. Please visit us for answers and support there are alot of us out there. 1 in 1000 in the USA is a cousin marriage . any way the links are www.cuddleinternational.org www.cousincouples.com

hope to see you there. Also anyone interested in the facts please visit us.

Jessie Woodard Jr Administrator for Cuddle International and Cousin Couples

-- Jessie Woodard Jr (jessiewoodard57@hotmail.com), August 23, 2002.