Hi:

Can anyone tell me what this is? I have heard about this several times, and I know there is a RENEW program in a bordering county. Also, I heard one of the bishops at the conference talk about this.

Thanks,

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), June 25, 2002

Answers

As far as I know, the RENEW program is notoriously liberal. However, I know good orthodox Catholics who have run these programs, and have ignored the official materials and substituted their own, and done a wonderful job spreading/teaching the faith. I'd check into who is teaching the program and what materials they are using.

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), June 25, 2002.

Christina, Would you be so kind as to define the term "Orthodox Catholic" for me. I grew up in the church served as a nun and never heard the term Orthodox Roman Catholic, I am only familiar with it in relationship to the Eastern rite. thank you. Joan

-- Joan (godessss@mindspring.com), June 25, 2002.

Joan, as far as I can see YOU are NOT what I could call an orthodox Catholic!(i.e. loyal to the magisterium of the Church).

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), June 25, 2002.

Thanks Christina. Is the program then actual prayer meetings or is it more of a curriculum?

Joan, I will let Christina speak for herself on 'Orthodox' but the dictionery meaning of orthodox (little o) means generally "conforming to the usual beliefs or established doctrines." In other words, "sticking to the beaten path." Certainly, if you read the writings of the early church fathers, you will find that Catholicism really IS the "beaten path."

Of course, conversely, 'liberal' means "off the beaten path." At least that's my take. Christina, would that be fair?

That certainly is what I mean when using that term. Those same terms orthodox and liberal) are being used to describe Protestant groups as well. I am afraid it is necessary in our day and age to use that distinctive because some folks have so far strayed from the beaten path that they have put their eternal destiny at risk, in that they have responded to a false gospel. (Both Protestant and Catholic churches are dealing with this phenomenon).

It's quite possible that we are seeing the predictions of Thessalonians played out right before our very eyes. It says, "The man of lawlessness (or anti-Christ) will be revealed after the great APOSTASY" (falling away from the faith).

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), June 25, 2002.

Gail and Christina

Nothing can be anymore liberal than to look at pictures of Nuns and Priests who are not wearing their Clerical garb anymore. I just saw where a priest in my area being promoted to a director position at a Seminary and I have never seen a more liberal priest than this man and it scares me to death that we will see more of his kind gracing our Churches with of the wall personalities and behaviors. I wonder when this crazy stuff will ever end and we see the Church in it's true form and getting away from the secular values that have damaged it's face in recent times.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 25, 2002.

I was part of a Renew Prayer Group for two years and I didn't experience any liberalism in my group. Our Leader is a deacon in the church, and all the others are 'old-time' catholics...

In fact, a very good friend of mine from the group died in the WTC on 9/11/01. He was a lector, a Eucharistic Minister, a Knight.

ML

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 25, 2002.

Thanks Gail for your reply. I believe I understand. You are saying that there are some who call themselves Catholics who are liberal in their views and approach and there are those who are conservative and focus on a more fundamental approach and these consider themselves orthodox catholics.

I appreciate your explanation because in complete honesty I have never in my life been aware of such as an 'orthodox catholic'. I was aware of a more fundamentalist view within the Church just from catching some of ETWN and Mother Angelica, but I did not realize that there was a name difference for Catholics whose approach was in this category. Thanks again. I have asked the question many times and this is the first time the answer was clear. Joan

-- Joan (godessss@mindspring.com), June 25, 2002.

Really?

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), June 26, 2002.

Dear Joan,

I am glad you asked that question because I, too, often wondered what it meant. I kind of figured out what it meant from reading everyone's post.

In all my years, I have never heard that term used...'orthodox catholics' except on this forum. I don't know any one who refers to themselves as orthodox and I do know many very 'strict' and observant catholics who continue to follow the catholic traditions we grew up.

Can anyone tell me when this term orthodox came into existence...was it always used or is it a recent term?

There are lots of words I never heard used by lay people - magisterium, for one. No one I know ever uses that word in our conversations about the church.

I have learned a lot about my own fatih on this board. I guess I should purchase the catholic catechism to learn more. MaryLu

Thanks, MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), June 26, 2002.

Hi All:

Since I am very new to the church, I don't know when Catholics started using it. But you hear that term all the time in Protestantism.

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), June 26, 2002.

Whoops, I meant to add something.

I think that in Protestantism, the term "liberal" would mean, for instance, not holding to the virgin birth, or Jesus really didn't rise again, or we really can't take the Bible serious when it talks about hell. Things that really UNDERMINE the gospel at its very heart.

I think, in Catholicism, liberal could mean, like Fred said, 'those priests or nuns who don't wear clerical garb.' ANY change whatsoever could be deemed as liberal -- the bar is much higher here.

Anyway, it does help to define these things so we're all talking about the same thing.

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (Rothfarms@socket.net), June 26, 2002.

MaryLu

If you really want to learn of our Catholic Faith and the Catechism there is a set of courses which were created by Fr Oscar Lukefahr which are excellent. My wife has been taking these courses and they are excellent and really take you down through the CCC, the Bible and Traditions of the Church. I would highly recommend this course for anyone who has a desire to really learn.

Here is the website address. http://www.amm.org/chss.htm Thgis is an excellent course of study and it is approved by the church and sponsored by the Missouri K of C. All they ask for is a donation to help cover the costs and that is as good as it gets. The material used if fully in line with Church teaching and can be of great benefit for all ages.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 26, 2002.

Hi Fred:

That course you mentioned looks really good. Did your wife go through RCIA as well? Does the course give an accreditation that could be used in lieu of RCIA?

Thanks

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net`), June 26, 2002.

It will not give you accredation towards RCIA from what I understand. But it sure beats the heck out of it royally. I would say this though. The course is used in some RCIA groups and I would say it may indeed be used. Ask a pastor. It will not do any harm. This course is top notch and I did not see any errors in it so far. It is the best I have seen to date. The course on the Bible is very deep anmd involved. You will have an opportunity to utilize the entire Bible on that course. Fr Lukefahr did an excellent job in the creation of these courses.

It has been my understanding that some RCIA courses have utilized his courses to some degree. How much I have no idea.

Blessings.

-- Fred Bishop (FCB@heartland.com), June 26, 2002.

MaryLu, Joan, and anyone interested,

You might take a stroll over here as it explains in great detail the definition and somewhat where the word originated. Personally, I thought it originated from G.K. Chesterton's book Orthodoxy which deals with the issue or "orthodoxy" as opposed to liberalism, but I could be wrong.

God Bless

-- (sacerdos@hotpop.com), June 26, 2002.

I have been trying to get more info on the " Renew Program." There has been a lot of talk on it being too generic. That it tries too hard to place Catholicism on an even keel with Protestism, playing down down the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Giving different wording to our Creed, and it is supported by known liberal Catholic dissenters. Can any of you tell me what you have observed? Thanks,

-- Pat Clark (patc2530@ao.com), October 14, 2003.