No, not at all well. She's over 30, an old barrel racer hailing from Texas. She's hard to keep weight on, but she gets pampered. The best alfalfa, and good grain.

She seemed a bit...off, for a few days. Nothing major, just seemed like she didn't feel good, not real perky. Yesterday, she was really lethargic. I checked her out, she didn't seem enemic, nor dehidrated. I wormed her, gave her electrolites and red cell, anyway. No temp.

Then last evening she got really wobbly....I was gonna have the vet out today, but when she collapsed, I called him. Falling down, not good!

He came out(I don't even want to think about the bill) and he was stumped as well. Hopefully the CBC will show something. We gave her some banamine. Her heart rate is way up. It's like poisoning or....even something nuerological. Her lips are slack....weird. Actually, it could be anything...renal, who knows?

Just venting, I hope she is ok. :-(

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 12, 2002

Answers

Interesting sidenote. While the vet was here, we were talking about West Nile. They did a necropsy last week on a horse located not 20 miles from here. Positive.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 12, 2002.

Oh Patty, I'm so sorry to hear about your old mare. I hope the vet finds something to help her. It is so hard to watch our old animals come to the end of their time with us. I'll keep you in my thoughts and let us know how she's doing. KA

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 12, 2002.

That's sad . I wasn't aware horses live that long. Are you or the vet suspecting west nile as causing your mares illness ? We had 2 crows test positive for West Nile from bordering Knox county .Hope she turns out fine . http://www.thedailytimes.com/sited/story/html/101487

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 12, 2002.

I didnt think horses lived that long either,,, and does West Niles affect horses? alot of animals carry it,, but cant transmit it

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), August 12, 2002.

Thanks you guys! :-)

Steve, it certainly has crossed our minds. But you know, all the encephalitis' are much the same in regards symptoms, as well as a host of other things. Viral stuff drives me nuts. He felt he would be seeing more neurological symptoms if it was WNV, I'm not so sure...? But, he's the vet, not I! I think that I'm seeing what could easily be neurological symptoms, but not extensively so. Not all the bloodwork is back unfortunately...the machine broke or something. No chemistry so far. But some stuff is back. She is slightly anemic, but it's her white that are off. Suggesting 'some' inflamation, 'somewhere'. Protein is off, which I'm guessing jibes with that. Slightly dehydrated, but she's drinking pretty good. Plus I gave her more redcell, banamine and electrolites. He's wanted to come back this evening, with a "collegue", sooo guess we'll see. I just don't want a massive bill, an "idiopathic" diagnosis, and a dead horse....but what are ya gonna do? :-( She has fallen a couple of times....but she doesn't seem worse, perhaps even a slight bit better (she says with reluctant hopefulness).

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 12, 2002.

Patty , I've seen results that have helped out my animals a number of times . Zinc Picolinate . Zinc is the active ingredient in Neo- sporum . What zinc does is , it creates a barrier around the animals cells . Now I don't know if viruses feed off the cells of the animals to sustain and reproduce , if they do then the zinc picolinate could help. Unlike antibiotics that diseases build a resistence to because they are over used and are creating mutated stronger viruses ,Zinc doesn't kill the virus ,it starves them cause they're not able to penetrate the barrier of zinc around the cell and can't feed off of the cell. I know zinc works fast on colds and pink-eye on humans , faster than anything I've seen. I use the capsules 30 mg. for colds . they also come in 50 mg capsules which is too strong for my stomach but good for large animals. The capsules can also be opened up and put on cuts. Also , for a respitory cold , I open a capsule and empty it in my mouth and drink something to take away the bitter flavor and wash it down so it coats the throat . CNN did a report on it about 8 years ago and the results of effectiveness were monitored by the convetional medicine researches. The only draw backs are they compete with other minerals like IRON and magnesium. And you said your horse has anemia, so if you used it you'd have to give her iron to compensate for the imbalance of the zinc. A caution : Extra zinc taken in large steady doses by pregnant women have caused bith defects in their offspring.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 12, 2002.

You can find Zinc Picolinate at health food stores . They cost about 6 dollars for a hundred . I wouldn't get the ones at Wal- mart or value stores. All vitamins are not the same . Some are refiend so they are better absorbed into the system .A less expensive brand may say 30 mg , but only 5 mg. might be absorbed into the system and the other 25 mg. go down the toilet.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 12, 2002.

Hmmm, that's interesting. And darn, I just went to Walmart, and it isn't close. ....wait a minute...I'm looking at the label of the red cell right now, it has 300mg of iron per fluid ounce, dosage was 2 ounces. But, I'm noticing it also has 110mg of zinc.....so that's 220 she got both yesterday and today. So, I guess I'm covered. I was thinking of giving her a shot of B, but looks like the redcell has a decent amount of that, as well. Maybe just some plain aspiren....like 10 or so....

They aren't coming tonight, probably tomorrow. They are really hoping to get the kidney/liver stuff back! It will cetainly hold some answers, even if it's just ruling stuff out.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 12, 2002.

ooops, I guess we were posting at the same time, lol.

I was just out there......I really think she is acting better, certainly not worse. She's eating and drinking, that's a big plus.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 12, 2002.

Oh, sorry Stan, I meant to answer your question. Yes, it can kill them. But, many recover. I have some sites....lets see, here's one.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/q&a.htm

I'm not really sure how about how lethal it actually is in horses, seems to be pretty bad. I was talking to a friend, who raised and trained horses all her life, and she was talking to a Vet the other night who said he lost a EXTREMELY high priced yearling that had been immunized.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 12, 2002.

On the local radio this morning they reported that 2 horses have been positively diagnosed with West Nile in Barren County(4 miles from me). One died during the night & the other is alive but having extensive veterinary intervention . They are warning folks to NOT pick up dead birds with your bare hands-wear gloves- and to put on bug spray when going outside. Apparently the disease is passed from mosquitos biting birds who are infected then biting other animals or humans. I don't use chemical bug sprays but I'm taking a bunch of B-100 vitamins(2-3X a day) to help deter them from biting me. I hope the garlic & hot peppers I eat will also make them think twice about chomping into me. :) Patty, how's the mare this morning?

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 13, 2002.

Patty, I'm wondering about your old friend as well. I have a minature mare who's 28. I didn't think she would make it through the winter last year, but she is fat and sassy grazing on weeds in this heat/drought wave. She had her last foal when she was 26. She looks so fat, I've been wondering if she was messing around again.

-- Granny Hen (cluckin along@cs.com), August 13, 2002.

Well, today she is incredibly unsteady on her feet. Worse, but still eating and drinking. Also, it seems worse on her right side, than left. Definately neurological type ailment. Like I was saying, so many of these have similar symptoms. Really no need to try for an exact diagnosis...I mean, most would be treated the same, pretty much. Short the protazoa, but that would be thousands to even try to treat. And some progressive, fatal stuff...like even rabies. But I don't think it's that, I think they crash fast in that case. Very well could be West Nile.

Vets came out, oh, and they got the chemistry back finally, pretty normal. So there ya go, again, neurological. I decided to go with anti-inflammatorys for the most part. Steriods, Dex (Dexamethasone), and some Bute(Phenylbutazone). And just for the sake of it, Tucoprim, which is trimethoprim and sulfadiazine.

We will see. If she doesn't respond, or starts falling and thrashing, ie hurting herself, or goes off feed, etc,...I'll have to put her down, of course. *big huge sigh* :-( And it's getting hard to treat her...she's hating the shots, and she's so tippy....I have to be really careful.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 13, 2002.

An update of interest.

Just talked to the Vet. Apparently they have four recently confirmed (through testing) local cases of West Nile in horses. Three just since my horse became ill! It's really crashing through. That's just confirmed cases, they think mine is probably West Nile because of this, but she hasn't been tested. I'm not sure if I will, because treatment would be the same....and frankly because of the additional cost. Sort of a moral dilemma though, because perhaps the data would be useful(if positive) to encourage the vaccine...?

I guess it hits horses so hard because it is not native, and therefore the body is completely "blindsided".

My mare is holding on, but....I guess I'm prepared. Tomorrow is my daughters birthday, sigh.

If you haven't vaccinated your horse, I suggest you do.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 14, 2002.

I heard on the news this morning, ,that the vaccine for horses ir "marginal" at best,, apparently it only works 25 percent of the time with horses.

Patty,, I hope your mare gets better,, but on a different note,, and note to sound morbid or unrespectfull,,, the mare is old,, even for horses,, so maybe it would be best to bet it down,, I know,, if I get so old that I cant take care of myself,,, I still have the mind to do it myself, or convince someone to do it for me.

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), August 14, 2002.

Patty, I hope she turns around soon. I know how much you care for her. I have to agree with Stan although I know how hard that decision would be to make. I get teary eyed just thinking about it. :( I've got a 13 1/2 yr old cocker spaniel that is starting to show her age and one day I may have to make that decision too. Did the vet say how long it would take before you'll notice either an improvement or definite decline in her condition? I will keep you and the mare in my thoughts. Hang in there!

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 14, 2002.

Oh no offense taken!!! I totally agree, standard of life, suffering etc.

I'm assessing this all the time. As well as talking to some really great vets! I'm lucky, the UMC Vet School, is one of the best in the country.

BUT, let me try to clarify my stance, this is an animal who while old, was in very good health until a few days ago. Very good. Her blood tests, vitals signs, etc., are surprisingly good for her age. Liver functions for instance, which can be a big old age thing.

Thing is, this isn't positively diagnosed so it _is_ tough. Still, it isn't like cancer, long term degenerative. It is some neorological ailment with a very fast onset, and quite possibly viral. So.......taking this into consideration, I'm willing to monitor treatment, for a "reasonable" time, with "reasonable" expectations. Still, I'm very clear in my mind that I'll put her down, when I feel it's the right thing/time. I made that decision already when I said, "If she doesn't respond, or starts falling and thrashing, ie hurting herself, or goes off feed, etc,...I'll have to put her down, of course." Also if she declines, or is suffering etc. That's pretty much always my feelings in these types of cases. I admit that I will treat more aggressively than many folks, like I had a stray tom cat come to my door not all that long ago, with a truely terrible infection in his foot from a bite, and it was literally rotting off. He was at deaths door, for sure. Most folks would have shot him. He did lose most of his foot, barely made it, but now he's fine. And no, I didn't take him to the vet. It does sort of drive me nuts when folks spend thousands of dollars on a cat with a fatal desease, but whatever.

I probably AM going to put her down, very possibly tomorrow. Up till today she seemed somewhat stable, just very unsteady, and she had been falling, but not often. Once a day or so. And she was very careful, not panicing, getting up fairly quickly and not injuring herself. Leaning against the barn for support. She was alert, responsive, voracious appetite, vitals were ok, not dull at all....just couldn't balance, assumidly because of the swelling in her brain. Not in pain, in my opinion. She still isn't in pain and is still alert and eating and drinking well, but today her respiration is labored. To me that is a marked sign. I am going to try to wait till tomorrow for "selfish" reasons, today is my daughters birthday.

I do appreciate the kind thoughts! :-) This isn't the first horse I've had to put down, nor the second....it is very, very sad, but we all gotta go sometime. I will be a big baby...I doubt I'll watch, I should I guess, it makes me feel sort of weak, but I still don't think I can handle it.

Oh Stan, where was that info on the vaccine? I'd be interested in seeing that.

Oh, I accidentaly stabbed myself with the needle after I gave her her shot last night....I hope I don't die. ;-)

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 15, 2002.

Oh Patty, I feel so sad for you & your mare. Even though it may be in her best interest it's still so hard to make that decision. I wish I could be there for you. If it helps I have a book that may be of some comfort it you'd like it I'll send it right out. It's called Blessing the Bridge about what our animals teach us about life & death. Since we have mostly very old pets I found it very helpful & it made some sense of the grief we feel for the animals we love. It's not a religious book-at least not in any traditional sense, it's just how everything has a time & purpose within the circle of life. Let me know if there's anything I can do, or e-mail me if you just want to talk. Kathy

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 15, 2002.

"I am going to try to wait till tomorrow for "selfish" reasons, today is my daughters birthday."

Well, that wasn't to be. Her respiration worsened, and I believe she started really losing the battle...so there really was no question of being selfish. I wrapped my arms around her, told her I loved her, and said farewell. She died with a carefully braided mane and slick and shiny from tender brushing. Lauren spent hours these last few days...just being with her. I think they both really liked that.

I feel bad for DD, she had a heck of a Birthday. This morning she had to go to the dentist, because it would have been a couple of months to reschedule, this afternoon, she had to say goodbye to a dear friend. I'm really proud of her, she has a good handle on these things. Still, what a day. Poor baby.

Ebony tested positive for West Nile, I found out later this evening. And, she almost licked it...but it wasn't to be. I have to say though, all in all, I feel really blessed. Most importantly, she was a good horse, she really was. And she had a good, long life. Secondly, everyone involved was beyond understanding. Good folks all the way around. I'm so very lucky to have vets that are..."REAL", for lack of a better word. And good friends who will drop everything to drag a backhoe out to bury my old friend, and even offer tremendous compassion. People to hold you when you gotta let the floodgates open for a second...I reeeeeally hate to cry. So...it was, as it should be.

Kathy, how very, very, thoughtful of you! Thankyou SO much for thinking of me. I also have an ooold dog, damn. They seem to hang on around here. lol. I'll look the book up at the library, I need to return some books. I don't think I'll ever stop caring, and it will always hurt me, but I guess...I hope, I have a healthy outlook on losing beloved animals. Even death in general, for that matter. I don't know, it's hard sometimes, that's for sure. This was sort of unique situation, I bought Ebony shortly after I bought my farm. She was the very first one here, and that was a long time ago. Hundreds have come after...

Anyway, that's that. Or, as Izzy said, A lady always knows when to leave the room. :-)

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 15, 2002.

Sorry to hear about your loss Patty. I know the feelings you'll be going through these next few weeks. It takes awhile to get over the loss of a loved pet. They become part of our lives that gives us meaning and then unexpectedly they're gone. Leaving an empty space in our life by the loss of their presence. In a way , they make us who we are. And when they die , it's like a part of us dies. I lost my 4ft. Green Iguana this past May that I had for 11 years. She had a very strong lovable personality. I wasn't home when she died .I try to make it a rule not to get attached to pets. But it doesn't work.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 16, 2002.

Thankyou Steve. :-)

I'll miss her.

One of the hardest things for me right now is to not second guess everything. Intellectually, it's worked out. But emotionally, it's very easy to beat the hell out of myself for not giving her the vaccine...I planned on it, but hadn't gotten around to calling... And it could very well have prevented this whole ordeal. But, life is like that. Live and learn. And..onward, lol. I don't regret putting her down, or waiting to do it, for that matter.

I had a 4ft green iguana as well. We have had many pets that others got sick of. He died last year as well. And no, that rule doesn't usually work, some of those damned critters have an uncanny ability to finagle a way into your heart.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 16, 2002.

Patty, I'm so sorry to hear about Ebony. Just remember how much joy she brought into your life and that she knew how much she was loved. Words can't take away the pain but we're all here for you if you want or need us. Peace, Kathy

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 16, 2002.

Patty, I have a fifteen year old pony. Just last night i found her lying in the pasture she was breathing very heavy. she was very weak. She eventually got up and went to the bathroom and it was really runny. i came back a little later and she was lying down again this time when i went up to her she was pawling at me and trying to roll. we walked her to the barn and called the vet, she kept stopping and was extremely slow and wobbly. The vet gave her some benecyde or wut ever it was called and they felt inside of her and we found a large mass near her kidneys, she has a very low white blood cell count and she has a very high temperature.I understand what your going thru. keep praying.

-- Alanna (Mumpkin316@aol.com), May 02, 2003.