Hello, I have been dating a wonderful man for the last five years. Everything is great between us, and between him and my parents, but not so great between me and his parents. I am African-American, he is white and we are both Catholic. We have been talking about marriage a lot lately and I worry about friction. Things aren't so bad between me and his mother-- she acknowledges me, says hello if she sees me, and I get invited to large mutli-family gatherings. We spend a lot of time with his brother, and his sisters are very nice people too. The problem lies with his father, who refuses to talk to me, look in my direction, and even sent me an e-mail demanding that I break up with his son and go away (that was four years ago; when I defended myself and said that he should discuss any problems that he has with me with his son, I never heard from him again). His only problem with me is my race. I have a good, steady job; I graduated from an Ivy league school with honors; I have lots of friends and love my family; and I am deeply in love with his son. Since his father is a man of faith, is there some way that I can show him, through Catholic teachings or the Bible, that it's okay for races to mix? Or is there strong opposition to race-mixing in Catholic marriages? So far, my boyfriend's reaction to this is to keep including me in group family things, but I have never seen his family during holiday times (Christmas, Easter and New Years, we're always with our own families) and I have never been invited to or seen their home.

-- Christina Redbush (redbush@earthlink.com), August 26, 2002

Answers

Christina.

May the Peace of our Lord be with you.

Yes, it is okay of race-mixing in Catholic marriages. My wife and I are both Malaysian but I am a Chinese and she is an Indian (her father is from India while my grandparents are from China.) We have been married for the last 8 years and the Catholic Church has encouraged us very much without any objection. In my country mixed marriages is very common among Catholic especially when both partners are of different race. Although we are both from two different cultures and background but it is the love for one another and also the love for God that brought us together. Surprising no one in my family or her family objected to our marriage, let alone the Catholic Church.

Remember that if you want your marriage to work put God first and the rest shall fall in place. All those objections will fade away.

Anyway I will try to get my wedding photo scan and sent it to you although you are a stranger to me. I will give one to my good friend John Gecik too.

God Bless

-- Vincent Koh (vincentkoh@pd.jaring.my), August 26, 2002.

Hi, Christina

I am sorry to read about your problems. I found you a very holy saint that you could pray to. I am sure this saint would pray to God for you if you ask.

St. Martin de Porres is feastday is celebrated November 3 in the Catholic Church. He was Canonized on May 16 1962 by Pope John XXIII. He was venerated from the day of his death. He was the First black American saint. Many miraculous cures, including raising the dead are attributed to Brother Martin.

Saint Martin is the patron of African Americans, bi-racial people, interracial justice, mixed race people, race relations, racial harmony.

He established an orphanage and children's hospital for the poor children of the slums. Set up a shelter for the stray cats and dogs and nursed them back to health. Lived in an self-imposed austerity, never ate meat, fasted continuoslely, and spent much time in prayer and meditation. Great devotion to the Eucharist. Friend of Saint John de Massias.

God bless you

David S

-- David (David@X.com), August 26, 2002.

Thank you, Vincent, for always saying a kind word to or about me. You and your dear wife are most admirable people.

David, that was wonderful for you to think of St. Martin de Porres. One thing you did not mention to Christina about St. Martin is the fact that his father was a Spanish knight and his mother was a Panamanian free-woman of African descent -- so he was a mixed-race man.

The Church definitely says nothing against mixed-race marriages. It sounds as though Christina's potential father-in-law is suffering from a deep prejudice that may go back to his childhoold -- hard to overcome. Or perhaps he was assaulted or robbed by a person of another race. Let's hope that prayer, especially through St. Martin, will help.

Here is a list of Internet articles headed "The Church's Stand Against Racism." Christina, maybe you will find something helpful there -- even something you can print out for your friend to leave in a "strategic" place for his father to stumble upon.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), August 26, 2002.

Hi Christina,

Send to you some of my wedding photos but unfortunately it returned back to me stating user Unknown. Any reasons?

God bless

Vincent

-- Vincent Koh (vincentkoh@pd.jaring.my), August 27, 2002.

Here are a couple of sites that I found. SITE 1 , SITE 2 .

I hope they help you in your struggle. Don’t give up!

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), August 27, 2002.

The photos are very lovely, Vincent. What a great "extended family" you have! Your wife is as beautiful as a princess -- and I am sure that her soul is even more beautiful.
I am honored that you thought of sending the photos to me.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), August 27, 2002.

If mixed marriages were a problem for catholics, Brasil would not be the biggest catholic country in the world! :-)

More than 70% of our people (170 million, 90% catholic) are mixed race, me included. I myself am a blend of white (hungarian, italian, french and portuguese), black and indian (and this in only three generations!)

God Bless you Christina! You should instead worry (and pray) about your future stepfather´s salvation. Racism is a very grave sin.

-- Atila (atila@choose.com.br), August 28, 2002.

By the way, my dear late grandfather (hungarian) told me something interesting.

When he was in the US, visiting his daughters (my aunts), he noticed something. When in Alabama, he went to the Baptist church with my baptist aunt. Only whites. The blacks´s baptist church was elsewere.

After that, in Arizona, with my catholic aunt, he went to Mass. Blacks, mexicans and whites togheter. Nice, isn´t it?

I won´t say that is the general rule for protestant churches, but if certainly made quite an impression on me at that time.

-- Atila (atila@choose.com.br), August 28, 2002.

It is our great pleasure John, to share our photos with you. You are worth more than a thousand photos. My wife and I saw the compassionate Chirst in you, and your articles and sharing in this Catholic forum have enrich us spiritually.

Thank you very much John.

God Bless

Vincent and Cathrine

-- Vincent Koh (vincentkoh@pd.jaring.my), August 28, 2002.

Dear Christina Redbush:
You are really fortunate to live in this generation. Our parents from the 60's back did not live desgragated, as everybody knows. I was a teenager in the late 50's. I recall having many black friends in school. Yet, they stayed with their own communities as far as dating and courtship. It was the ''accepted'' way. Once in a while, a married black-white couple was seen. It didn't cause resentment at all. I had neighbors, a Mexican-American wife and Black (African-American) husband. I used to play with their two boys.

I can tell you something personal about the mentality of those times. One day, an older friend asked me, ''Are you prejudiced?'' --Of course, I answered, ''No.'' I'm not; I have many negro friends.'' (That was the word, then.)

This man said then, ''Yes, you are. Would you let a black man marry your sister?''

Here was a good question. Because very few interracial marriages were seen at that time. Also, because in the Latin communities, as everywhere, we favored our own people as the ones we married. As a result of this superficial circumstance, I answered, ''No.'' He stated very plainly then; ''See? You ARE prejudiced.''

I wasn't prepared for that awful question, Christina. It was unusual, and I was a green teenager. But in my heart, and as a faithful Catholic, I knew for certain that racial injustice is a mortal sin. I had to contemplate on many later occasions, the reason I'd fallen into such a trap; that question about my own sisters. --Here's what I came to realise as maturity caught up with me.

My sisters, first of all, were free to marry whom they pleased, and interracially as well, if they chose to. The man they would accept for a husband would be free as well; and as long as the marriage were a VALID marriage, nobody had a right to interfere. Not for racial motives, or any other motives. THIS is God's law: In marriage, there is no reason to segregate races or colors.

The sad reality in our country was; *COURTSHIP* was forbidden by many parents, between the races. It wasn't considered good for a white girl to be seen with a black boy. --But why???

This ignorant mentality was an unspoken thing, Christina. *The boy will make love to the girl, as an act of racial aggression. Then, he will leave her!* It was this kind of ignorance that bred resentment in white people. Not all, but a large number.

Nevertheless, once the couple was married, the African-American husband would often enough be completely acceptable and worthy. I was witness to these things, so I know. It was fear and suspicion that were at the bottom of it. Thanks to the events of the last half of the 20th century, these things were at last realised; they came out in the open. We matured and grew as a Christian society.

God gave us this grace, once and for all, Christina. --I regret it was mostly by repeated upheavals in the African American communities, and the militancy of blacks who were tired of this injustice, that change has come about at last. If it hadn't been for them, we would still be guilty of the same apathy and narrow-minded prejudices.

We have to thank God for His grace, which leads to all peaceful reform. You have that grace and dignity to thank Him for yourself, as well. If others haven't yet received it, or refuse to see you as a good woman who LOVES GOD, please forgive them. You know what's just and Christian, even if they want to belittle you. Pray for their eventual enlightenment. The Catholic Church has always preached the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ, who calls every one of us to His salvation. He makes no racial distinctions, Christina.

Do you know one of the greatest Doctors of the Church was of African blood? He is Saint Augustine. Yesterday, 27th August was the feast of Saint Monica, his mother. Pray to both Sts Augustine and Monica, for the conversion of your boyfriend's father. We also pray with you!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), August 28, 2002.

Even , I follow any religion , I will answer this question !!!!

Whatever the color of your skin , we all are humans !!!! __ If you love eachother , just go ahead and marry him !!

Greets from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG. (.@...), August 28, 2002.

Hold on, Lug. Non-believers aren't human. (They're descended from apes.)

_____

OK, I'm keddding!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), August 28, 2002.

Eugene thx for the nice compliment , I really do love jokes !!

Greets from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG. (.@...), August 28, 2002.

OK, Laurent,
But do you understand what Chistina Redbush was asking us? Her words were:

Are mixed-race couples okay in Catholicism?

Her question is directed at Catholics, not unbelievers. She wonders is there a biblical or a Catholic (doctrinal) way to show her boyfriend's father why God would not be offended by her marriage to that man's son.

This is a fair question. One which, naturally you can't answer, because you're an unbeliever. Christina already knows she is human like all of us, after all.

In my own heart, I don't feel she has an obligation to show him anything; his own conscience should be awake enough to realise the truth. Too many good people accept the challenges that bad people make as if the bad man had all the rights.

In fact, that's why all the great changes in race relations have come in western society. Instead of bowing to the racists, people of color began to challenge them in return. It took a lot of pain and turmoil. But we have a better society today because of it. Christine doesn't need the approval of bigotted men. If she loves her young man and he loves her, God will protect them from the world. That's actually what the Catholic Church teaches.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), August 28, 2002.

Eugene , nowhere in the title itself , I see it's directed to catholics only , but OK , no problem !! __ BTW: Mixed-race , yeah I now what it means , to take an example: a kid of japanese woman & and white father or japanese & black !!

Eugene wrote:

In my own heart, I don't feel she has an obligation to show him anything; his own conscience should be awake enough to realise the truth. Too many good people accept the challenges that bad people make as if the bad man had all the rights.

Agree , I don't see what she has to proove to some people !!

PS , My other reply:

Quote:

Whatever the color of your skin , we all are humans !!!! __ If you love eachother , just go ahead and marry him !!

Eugene , tell me , please , do you see any anti-religious words/opinion in my reply itself ??

Greets ftom a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG. (.@...), August 28, 2002.

I agree with Laurent LUG. Eugene, I think you were a bit harsh. Laurents comments were perfectly Catholic, whether he likes it or not. In fact, from a lot of what Laurent has written, he truly is a better Catholic then some who claim to be Catholic (like Jean or Joan - not to mention any names or anything).

Thanks Laurent.

And Christina, your step-father (to be) is in my prayers.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), August 29, 2002.

Well, Jake
No one is barring Laurent from posting. However, the thread is concerning a young woman and her encounter with an apparent bigot.

We address these things a little more seriously than to declare, ''We are all humans.'' Nobody has to explain this to Christina; in some other person's context, it is condescension. In Laurent's, I'm sure, it is the sincere wish to console her.

As for his being a better Catholic than some, I find your own words something of a condescension. Laurent really didn't ask for that compliment, did he? Of course, you mean to say the most charitable thing you think of; for that God will surely reward you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), August 29, 2002.

Eugene , who's talking about to console someone , she's an adult , she & her friend can decide for their own , if his father doesn't like it , so what !!!! __ A marriage is between the 2 people who are in love , not with her & his parents or whatever or whoever !! __ They have to decide for their own !! __ They love eachother , I just say , go for it !!

I just give my opinion , you don't like it , sorry !!!!

Let me ask you a bit weird question , a bit out off topic:

Suppose you meet a woman , you're in love with her , you really would like to marry her , but not for church , her parents give you a choice , you must marry for church , in exchange you get 100 million buks , or no marriage , what would you do ????

Or you will be disinhirit by your parents , if you don't marry for church , what would you do ????

PS: Jake still thx for your compliment !!

Greets from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG. (.@...), September 03, 2002.

Eugene Wrote:

This is a fair question. One which, naturally you can't answer, because you're an unbeliever. Christina already knows she is human like all of us, after all.

you've got it completely Wrong in this case !!!! __ Why ????

Eugene wrote:

In my own heart, I don't feel she has an obligation to show him anything; his own conscience should be awake enough to realise the truth. Too many good people accept the challenges that bad people make as if the bad man had all the rights.

In fact, that's why all the great changes in race relations have come in western society. Instead of bowing to the racists, people of color began to challenge them in return. It took a lot of pain and turmoil. But we have a better society today because of it. Christine doesn't need the approval of bigotted men. If she loves her young man and he loves her, God will protect them from the world. That's actually what the Catholic Church teaches.

Eugene , actually we both are saying exact the same , but from our point of view !!!! __ We do have a lot in common , more than you know , the only difference is , I don't follow any religion !!!!

Greets from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG. (.@...), September 03, 2002.

Dear Laurent:
I already said you have every right to write your posts. I'm not denying you anything.

I mentioned the lady's OWN simple request: Is there a CATHOLIC point of view? Is there a BIBLICAL point of view? Not what is the unbeliever's point of view.

Nevertheless, you gave your point of view, even if it was not the requested one. It happens to agree with mine??? That's terrific, Laurent. Christina will certainly not object. However, she's asked for some way by which to win over her boyfriend's Dad. If she never achieves that, I say TOO BAD. She's a free person, and her boyfriend has rights as a free man. Let's ask the Church if that's not true. Look in the Bible and you can see it's true. The unbeliever may think it's true; but the unbeliever also REJECTS other truths.

So what good is the belief of an unbeliever,-- who denies God??? (Just food for thought. Contemplate this a while, Laurent.)

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 03, 2002.

You people are getting really harsh about this whole thing! I agree that if you love him you marry him but you guys are getting this whole thing into a full-fledged debate! Your not debating over religion your giving this lady a simple answer to a simple question! I'm baptist which may be a mortal sin or something but I think that if you love him go for it! I really like a black guy right now and I'm white but I just have to overlook that and conquer my fear of insuperiority to other couples. I think that's what it's all about! The fear of being different or being looked down upon. Who cares? We're all worshiping the same God if we are worshiping God! I think you love him you marry him! GOD IS COLORBLIND!!

-- Savi Bennett (SaviB09@aol.com), October 27, 2002.

I am not a Catholic, but I do not think it matters what race someone is. I myself am the typical stereotypical WASP of German and British decent. If you look at pictures of the Hitler Youth with their blonde hair and blue eyes, that is pretty much how I look. Currently I am in Japan teaching English, my girlfriend is Japanese. I speak Japanese, I love Japanese culture, people and food. I attended university in Korea where I had several Korean girlfriends. In Canada (my home country), I dated Japanese, Hispanic, Caucasian and Black. It doesnt matter. Also according to many religions including Catholicism we decend from a common ancestor. Also Jesus Christ is often depected as a WASP, when infact he was likley Arabic looking in appearance as that what part of the world he was from. I love my girlfriend and I plan to marry her. Ofcourse some people see this as a problem. But that is their problem, not ours. I feel sorry for people who disaprove. Again I am not catholic, but we are all God's children right? Cheers, Kurt Rymal

-- Kurt Karl Rymal (g6v1h@hotmail.com), December 18, 2002.

Dear Kurt,
Personally, I love the Japanese. (I ought to just say, I love every racial group in the world--come to think about it--) It would be so much greater if both your Japanese fiance and yourself were married as Catholics.

A fascinating fact, as relates to the Japanese. Many westerners mistake the soberness and reserve of the Japanese for coldness. The formality and serious faces lead us to believe they can be humorlesss, or unsentimental. Yet the facts prove differently. They are very sensitive; with a fondness for poetry and delicate things.

I happened to find out that one of the more beautiful poems in our English language, by the Irish poet Francis Thompson; ''The Hound of Heaven'' --was translated to Japanese, and became one of the most-loved western works of literature ever to be seen in Japan. It touches the Japanese soul immensely, as I understand. Not surprising; it's a poem no one could resist for the spiritual message it sends.

Thompson needless to say, was a Catholic writing about God's love for each one of us. God Our Father is seen in the poem as a Hound which pursues his ''prey'' with ''deliberate speed; never giving up the chase.

Doesn't seem spiritual, Hmmm? It really is a marvel. If you haven't read it, ask your girl-friend about it. She might have already. Then again, you might just obtain it and read for yourselves. Goodby, and God be with the two of you, Kurt.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 18, 2002.

Dear Christina,

I am a white Catholic, married for 19 years to an African Catholic. We have four beautiful children. Neither of our families was delighted when we first married, but that was a long, long time ago. Now, we spend time with our families with much love and laughter. Children have a way of bringing out the best in everyone & prayer helped also. But interracial marriages/families are still not the norm and you should know that you will weather some difficulties. I recommend that you live in a community that is neither too white, nor too black, so that you can both feel comfortable. Peace.

-- Mary Ann Kalambay (kalambaym@aol.com), December 19, 2002.

Hopefully someone will read this. I am going through the same thing as Christina except that I am half-white/half-korean and my fiance is Trinidadian (half-black, half-west indian). My Mom (Korean) is voicing some strong opposition to the marriage. In particular she cited Ezra Ch 9 and genesis Ch 28 as support for her belief that mixing races in marriage is wrong. Can anyone provide some advice, words of encouragement, or biblical evidence to counteract her argument?

-- MS (sinatram@hotmail.com), June 03, 2003.

If there is one thing more demeaning than the sin of racial bigotry, it is attempting to justify one's sin by trying to reinterpret the Word of God to one's own purposes. Racial prejudice has always existed, and those who practice it have always tried to justify it. It existed in Jesus's own time, but it was not practiced by Him ...

"Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews had no dealings with Samaritans.) (John 4:9)

There is a popular saying which, while perhaps trite, is nevertheless very true - "God is color-blind". In fact, He is totally blind to our external appearance. Rather, he sees the condition of our hearts and our souls. Your mom's heart is tainted regarding this important matter, and giving in to such an ungodly state of mind can surely be detrimental to one's soul as well. Her unchristian attitude likely did not come about of her own choosing. Bigotry is learned, indeed instilled in people at an early age, often in very subtle ways, and is most difficult to unlearn. I hope and pray that your beloved may be the instrument through whom God heals your mom of this spiritual infirmity. Stand firm and let your love be your guide - your love of the truth and of justice. For "what God has joined together, let no man separate" (Matt 19:6)

"Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him- - a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. (Colossians 3:9-11)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus". (Galatians 3:28)

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 03, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, MS.
I agree with all that Paul has told you, but I'd like to add a few comments.

You wrote: "I am going through the same thing as Christina except that I am half-white/half-korean and my fiance is Trinidadian (half-black, half-west indian). My Mom (Korean) is voicing some strong opposition to the marriage. In particular she cited Ezra Ch 9 and genesis Ch 28 as support for her belief that mixing races in marriage is wrong."

I am thoroughly surprised by your mother's opposition, because she herself is (or was) a spouse in an interracial marriage. Her opposition to your wishes seems tantamount to saying that she wishes you had not been born, because it must have been "wrong" for her to have married a "white" man.

Please talk to her about Ezra 9 and Genesis 28, which she is misinterpreting. [Did she come upon these chapter herself, or has she been listening/watching bigots who presented a false interpretation of them to her?]
In the case of Genesis 28, the Hebrew people and the Jewish religion were in their infancy. In the case of the book of Ezra, a small group of Jewish people, returning from exile in Babylon, were restoring the Jewish "race" and religion to prominence in Palestine. These were the "chosen people" of God, and He wanted them to flourish. Perhaps the true religion would have died out -- or would have become perverted by false doctrines and sacrifices -- if these few Jews had been permitted to intermarry with non-Jews. Part of Ezra 9 says: " And after all that has come upon us for our evil deeds and for our great guilt, seeing that thou, our God, hast punished us less than our iniquities deserved and hast given us such a remnant as this, shall we break thy commandments again and intermarry with the peoples who practice these abominations?"

So, it was for reasons of keeping the religion pure and growing in numbers -- not for a generalized, permanent ban on interracial marriage -- that we find the Jews being told not to marry the (non-Jewish) Canaanites, etc., in Ezra 9 and Genesis 28. Clearly, MS, that situation has nothing at all to do with your own desire for an interracial marriage.

Is it possible that your mother has a deep racial prejudice, thinking that certain race-mixing is OK, but that "blacks" are inferior to you and her? Or is it possible that (reasonably) she fears that your fiance will lead you away from your religion?

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 07, 2003.