Here is the story of a young Catholic man I know (he attends Mass twice a week) who is feeling a little confused. I want to write to him as he feels "born again" after attending a protestant evangliacal church. If you think you can give me any useful advice it would be appreciated.

Two weeks ago I was invited to an evangliacal church service for youth between the ages of 24 and 35, now i couldn't make it last week-but feeling guilty about denying an invatation, i made it this week.

i did it out of politeness, as a fellow hebrew scripture student said come, and i did it out of curiosity- a certain writers instinct that this would be worth at least 500 words, and i did it out of an intellectual curiousity, and i did it because jesus and i have not been on the best terms of late.

it took me an hour to get their by bus, and the church looked like an ancient, decaying convention centre, with red velvetine cushions on the pews- i spent the first hour listening to a good praise band- they played rock and roll, in that most basic bass,drum,guitar,keyboard set up, and i sort of started grooving, but also writing a draft in my head, taking note of things i wanted to mention- there was a call to offering and i put my name on a vistior card, and i was doing all that cult watch shit my father taught me- then everyone sat down, and there was a sermon, there was in this hour a call for all the new people to put thier hands up, and another about guests coming foreward.

this sermon started like any hipster does, bad anecdotes about airplanes and questions asked to the audience, i answered two questions- cause i knew the answer - and i was all of a sudden noticed, something i was trying to avoid- the sermon had scripture by power point, something i would usually mock, but i really didnt feel my cynicism or winking irony i usually have to surrive these situtions.

Then something happened that i cannot explain at all, he finished his semon, and the band started up, and i left- i was weeping outside, and i didnt want to be conspicous, after i came back-there was an altar call, and i felt imprinted to go to the front of the church- i felt blank and happy, like how the spirit of god is described in conversion literture, my head shut off and i felt a strong desire to go to the altar and be cleansed- like all of my sins, and all of my actions others consider sins-would disappear, and i would be happy and joyus and forever in the arms of christ jesus. i have been unusually quiet today, and am feeling deeply confused- am i now born again ?

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 25, 2002

Answers

^^

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), September 25, 2002.

Sounds like the Holy Spirit touched him deeply! Kiwi, did that happen to you, or someone you know?

Perhaps this fellow needed a real encounter with Christ and he got it. What was the message, though, at the altar? Or was there a prayer offered at the altar? What was the sermon about?

Good to hear from you again Kiwi!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 25, 2002.

Hi Gail yes its nice to pop back and visit and see you all still here. I do worry that Chris B's health may be worse than he is letting on and Ive been thinking about Jean Bouchard who has gone awol. Is Mary Lu still on board?

It is from a friend and you are right I should not presume that because it is not a Cathoilc service that the Holy Spirit is not present. Ill ask him your questions. Thanks

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 25, 2002.

Dear Kiwi,
I'm happy you experienced an uplifting moment. It may have been the presence of God. Yes, why not? Then it may have just happened as the result of your personal hunger for Him. Looks as if you were caught off guard?

It can't matter as long as you remain in control of your feelings. Just because this didn't happen to be a Catholic service; is the Holy Spirit failing to come to any other? Of course, we can't know.

''. . . Like how the Spirit of God is described in conversion literature, (You write) ''--my head shut off and I felt a strong desire to go to the altar and be cleansed- like all of my sins, and all of my actions would disappear, and I would be happy and joyous and forever in the arms of Christ Jesus. I have been unusually quiet today, and am feeling deeply confused- am I now born again ?''

---

You felt LOVE for Jesus Christ, Kiwi. That's the total, that is about all.

And if this meeting gave you a lift, to love Jesus again as we all must; Good! You have nothing to regret. You can resume your life of grace today. Nothing of the Catholic faith is contrary or counter-productive for your purposes.

Nevertheless: in the previous experience, you weren't any closer to God. The love you felt was already a part of YOU going in. If you let yourself become confused, you go back to the start, You don't know what it is you're searching for. It isn't the faith; you had it all the time, Kiwi!

In the Catholic faith you have it all NOW. You aren't far from Jesus Christ, Kiwi. You only fancy you are. --What is lacking Dear Courtship??? Does the man need a road map?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 26, 2002.

Hi Gene, thanks for your wonderful advice.

While its not about me I appreciate your words I can certainly take alot from them for myself. Ill be sure to offer him your advice if you dont mind. It really is nice to hear from you again, you sound like youre in excellent spirits and health- very uplifting indeed!

Blessings

ps

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=3043442 (it aint me, honest!)

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.

Hey kiwi; been doing other stuff but came back tonight to look around a bit; bored...

Glad to see you are ok. Later.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), September 26, 2002.

Hi Emerald hows things? It damn good to hear from everyone again, well just about everyone eh John :) Im on holiday so Ive got too much time on my hands as well... thus the rambling.

Im looking into trying to get a teaching postion in the US next year as Ive never been to the States. I dont know where or how to start but I defintely do not want to end up in N Y or LA I want to get into a small town somewhere and soak up a bit of heartland americana (if it exists). I think a year or two in America would be great for me before I get sucked into buying a house back home and all that serious stuff.

Ive managed to post a few pictures on the internet of myself, but I didnt get the scanner set up right so the resolution is dodgy. Actually I regret posting most of them, I either look creepy, sleazy or drunk or more likely all three . Theres one nice photo where I look a bit more respectable with my little sister. Anyway laugh away if you wish!

http://members12.clubphoto.com/courtenay623952/892619/guest.phtml

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.

Kiwi: Loved the pictures! You are just as I had you pictured! Now we have a face to place with your posts.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 26, 2002.

Hi Kiwi,
I've experienced many times what that man did that day, in my Church and when attending non-catholic concerts. Right now, I'm certain that the one responsible for all that is The Holy Spirit. What I'm not so sure about is why He causes it!!! Because we humans tend to stay where we feel better, and I think conciously or unconciously that's what most of us are looking for while we are alive; but that's funny because The Gospel says the opposite: "If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9,23). I think God lets us feel His love from time to time in such an overwhelming and beautiful way that we can do anything but cry or stay speechless in order to make us come to Him. But that's not the foundation of our faith; Faith by itself is dark and implies renunciation; and I think renunciation to our senses above all. If I'm honest I have to say that I became a charismatic because I could "feel" and "see" that God loved me, I could "see" that The Holy Spirit is working day by day in Our Church; when my faith was weak I could simply go to a charismatic gathering and there I saw people speaking in tongues, people being healed phisically, mentally and spiritually, people singing, dancing and praising, prophecies being made and confirmed... and then the greatest miracle of all: my faith being strengthened!!!... oh! really? I tried to make my personal prayer (and relationship with God) a continuation of all this and when it didn't happen like that I felt frustrated, like I was doing something wrong; when things went out as expected then I felt the greatest joy. Why God permits (causes?) these things? I don't know, I don't think I ever will. What I'm sure of is that He has shown me little by little that I have to grow up, that my faith can no longer be sustained by "children's food"... I've imagined Jesus asking me "Are you able to drink the cup I am about to drink?" and with this faith I wouldn't even think it, I would walk away. I had said hundreds of times that I loved Him, I've cried out of love, and with tears in my eyes I've said that I love Him, but one day I found out that what I was in love with were His gifts not Him...

What I'm trying to say, is that I'm sure that sometimes when God acts in our lives we can sense it, but we cannot base our decision to stay in one church or another because we felt better in one of them. I'm also sure that what you friend felt, if it brought him closer to God, was caused by the Holy Spirit, but we have to remember that sanctifying grace is not imparted by charismas, but by other means such as Sacraments, like The Eucharist and The Reconciliation.

In the love of Jesus.

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.

Thanks Cristian

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.

Hey Kiwi,

Love the pictures....your sister is beautiful, and you are a handsome young lad! Looks like killian red in those mugs....am I right?

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), September 26, 2002.

Hi Kathy, yeah Jessica is beautiful.The drink was known as a "snakebite" in London, half cider and half lager- a rather nasty brew actually but all good fun- dangerous stuff. Ah the good ol days, the photos are from 2000. Im set in my ways, old and boring now.

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 26, 2002.

Sisherwood,

Your friend," ....And I did it because Jesus and I have not been on the best of terms of late.."

D-How do you expect to get on the right terms? You could of spent 3 hours with all the time you spent riding up and back, going to Mass, or praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament, friend! Everyone has there struggles understanding sometimes.

During a momentous period when many of Jesus disciples left Him, St. Peter(Our first Pope)said to our Lord,"Master to whom shall we go, You have the words of eternal life(cf.John668)." This is the key to dealing with our own periods of doubts. You need to continue to spend more time with Christ. Jesus did not say at the Last Supper,"Just do anything in remembrance of me.' He said 'Do this in remembrance of me.'

Your friend,"Am I born again?"

D-To your friend. Nothing personal friend, but you should spend more time learning your own Catholic relegion. You were Born Again in Baptism.

John 3;5, where Jesus says,"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

This verse is important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. 'Born again Christians claim the "water" is the preached word of God.

Also about your comment,'Jesus and I have not been on the best of terms lately'. I think you would spend your time more wisely praying in front of Jesus about this.

We will never understand everything about God. We are finite human beings who have been lovingley created in the image and likeness of an infinite God. If we knew and understood everything about God, than we would be God. But rember, St. Peter provided us with the correct answer about how to deal with doubts about our faith that can affect our relationship with Christ and the Church.

May God give your friend the grace to keep going to a priest if he wants to be cleansed of any mortal sins. And to rember that all venial sins are forgiven at Mass.

David

-- David (David@excite.com), September 27, 2002.

Hi David, thanks for your help especially in regard to be being "born again". I dont think he is going to leave the church he just has never experienced such a feeling before and is confused- spiritual or emotional reaction where do the two meet and can they seperated?

Sisherwood ! Im not sure what you mean by that, please call me Courtenay if youd rather use a personal name. Hope you are well its been a while since Ive spoken to you.

God Bless

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), September 27, 2002.

Courtenay,

"Thanks for your help especialy in regard to being 'born again"....

You are very welcome.

"...He has never experienced such a feeling before and is confused- spirtual or emotional reaction where do the two meet and can they be seperated?"

I am sure they can. The world has its share of very holy Protestant people. I just questioned your friend's motives for going. One of his reasons was,'that him and Jesus are not on the right terms now'. He is confused and in my opinion and this time in his life he would be better learning the basics about Catholicism. You could teach him when he was born again, etc.... Maybe he is confused about other subjects too.

I guess I look at it like this, Why go out for a hamburger when you have the Steak?

I looked at your pictures. Your sister looks like a very sweet young lady. You look just the way I pictured in my mind. You are a handsome man, except you are a smaller man than I pictured. ;-)

Take care of yourself Courtenay, and I am going to pray that the Holy Spirit lights a fire under your sister, friend, and yourself to fall in love with Catholicism. Keep praying, it is the sure way to keep your faith. Sometimes when you don't want to pray, ask God to give you the grace to pray.

David

-- David (David@excite.com), September 27, 2002.

Hey Courtenay:

Your friend should take that experience he received, and seek more, more, more of the Holy Spirit. He can stay right in his own church, ask the Holy spirit to open his eyes, and just watch what happens! The Lord can open his eyes to the glorious spiritual mysteries that there at Mass. He can show your friend the treasury of his heritage.

He probably is thinking "Why didn't I get that at my church?" Only God knows the answer to that. Sometimes we just need to get out of our comfort zone for awhile. The Lord can touch whomever he wants, whenever and WHEREVER he wants. Tell your friend to start reading his Bible, get together with a small prayer meeting perhaps at his Church. Hunger and thirst for Christ, and He will be there to fill!

I have been profoundly touched at Mass. I was in non-denomational charismatic churches for years, and yet, there's something so unique and spiritual at Mass -- I can't stay away. My 4 year-old daughter was so touched at a recent High Mass, that she wept with joy, crying "Mommy, I love this church." When I'm at Mass, I get the feeling I'm in the throne room of God, right smack dab in the middle of the scene depicted in Revelations.

I think it's true what they say, "Familiarity breeds contempt." No matter what our background, we get stagnant. We need the Lord to stir the waters of our complacency!

Lots of Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 27, 2002.