When I was a little younger (19), I was dating a girl, the same girl I am dating three years later, and we used a morning after pill one time when we had sex and the condom broke. First of all, we have since stopped having sex and I have gone to confession for that, but after reading some material on EWTN, I believe I need to go to confession for using that pill as well. I have never even thought about it until now. I know that I did not fully understand what that pill can potentially do when we used it, but I do now. Do you think I have been excommunicated from the Church for the last three years without knowing it for participating in a potential abortion? I want this burden lifted. Thank you for your comments

-- Anonymous (hartinj@wyeth.com), October 31, 2002

Answers

Anonymous,

It is a burden lifted in itself for you to be living a chaste life! Amen to that. There are not many like you anymore. Even an excommunicated person who has repented will not be denied back into the Body of Christ. I don't know the immediate answer of whether or not you unintentionally excommunicated yourselves (I don't really know if you can UNINTENTIONALLY excommunicate yourself). But please talk it over with a priest. I know that it is embarrassing to talk about this in front of another person (who you might not know), but I promise you that the priest will take your secret to his grave before anyone else hears it from him. This way you may confess the sin and understand the rules of excommunication.

My prayers are with you, Anon.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), October 31, 2002.

As I am not a priest but only a mere seminarian studying for the priesthood, I would recommend you talk to a priest. However, though I will make no judgements on whether or not it was indeed a sin worthy of excommunication, keep these three rules in mind. For a sin to be mortal it has to be of a 1) serious matter 2) you have to have sufficiently reflected upon it and 3) there had to be full consent of the will. In other words, you had to know it was a serious sin, you had to have ample time to have reflected upon the actual sin, and had to have given full consent of your will. Now, don't take what I am saying as the definitive rule, you need to have a well- formed conscience in order to make any assessment on a given sin, and need to form that conscience by speaking with a confessor, knowing what the Church teaches, and asking a priest if you are unsure of the gravity of a given sin, or if it is even a sin at all.

Again, I recommend you speak to a priest who can help you out more than I am sure I did.

God Bless

-- (seminarian@ziplip.com), October 31, 2002.

How truly wonderful for you to recognize your sins and repent of them. You cannot imagine how pleased God is with you.

Here's a little story. When I was in my teens I was using 'the Pill' in order to prevent pregnancy. Scanning the tv one evening, I landed on Mother Angelica Live. She was interviewing a Pro-Life lawyer. This woman was so wonderful, and between her and Mother Angelica I discovered the horrible sin(s) I was committing. For starters, fornication. Worse still the using of 'the pill.' I had been lied to by the clinic I was getting the pill from. I had no idea that the pill in many cases actually causes abortion! The sort of pill I was taking prevented pregancy by preventing the fertilized egg (a tiny little life) to attach to the lining of the uterus. I was told the pill prevented ovulation (I told them I didn't believe in so they came up with the lie)! Further more the so-called break-thru bleeding which occurs sometimes when taking the pill, is now believed to be the actual expulsion of the tiny little baby from the woman. If that's true than I have experienced at least 3 (visible) miscarriages (abortions.) Who knows how many more there were that I DIDN'T see?

I cried and cried when I discovered this, since even as a sinning fornicator, I had always been strongly pro-life. I immediately turned away from the sins I had committed, confessed to a good priest and never looked back. The good news, my boyfriend did, too. The better news? He's my husband now, and he and I are raising our children in the faith and we are determined to emphazise the gift of chastity to our kids when the time is right.

I know in my heart I killed babies, and I still carry the sorrow of doing that. I pray for them each and every day, especially today on the Feast of All Souls. I pray Jesus carried them to his Home even though they didn't recieve the grace of baptizm.

The Point of all this, Anonymous, that while you can't undo what you've done, you can be confident in God's forgivness through his good priests. He loves you. In the sacrament of confession, our sins are given to Jesus where he tosses them away as if they never occured. While we may have to make up for our sins in Purgatory, we still have the gift of Christ's forgivness.

Now, if you didn't will the abortion (which neither did I) the severity of the sin is not as grave as the lady who goes to the abortion clinic very much aware of what she is doing and does it any way. I know, anonymous, it is a small consulation. A baby may have died as an indirect result of your actions (as did mine). Offer your sorrow for the Holy souls. Take heart knowing you are forgiven. Having your sins forgiven by Christ through his priest allows you a complete invitation back into The Church where you can fully participate in Her sacraments.

-- Barb (Sanctus@don'tspam.me), October 31, 2002.

God bless you Barb. Your post was so inspirational! I hope that you continue to meet her and post with us.

In Christ

-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), October 31, 2002.

Thanks for the comments everyone. I feel a little better and my name is Joe. I don't feel the need to remain anonymous anymore!

-- Joe (hartinj@wyeth.com), October 31, 2002.

Perhaps someone can answer this for me.

Someone recently asked me a question regarding a verse in scripture pertaining to sin and I did not know how to answer it. I always thought if we repented for our sins, committed those sins no more, and lived a righteous life that we were completely forgiven by God.

In Job 11:6 it says.....Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin.

What does that mean when it says that God has forgotten 'some' of your son. I thought God forgot all of our sins when we confess our sorrow for our sins, repent, and sin no more.

Thank you for your help with this question.

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), November 01, 2002.

'sin' - not son, another typo...ml

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), November 01, 2002.

Good question MaryLu.

I would suggest looking at the content of that passage, because perhaps he is refering to those sins that one has not repented of. In other words, if you repent of some sin, then God forgets some sin.

Also, is there a difference between forgive and forget?

Hope others put in their 2 Cents.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), November 01, 2002.

Hello, MaryLu.
I am writing about your question concerning Job 11:6. You said that your version of the Bible states: "Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin."

The first thing to note, as can be seen in verse 1, is that those words were not spoken by God, nor by Job, nor by a prophet, but by one of the three friends who visit Job and commiserate with that poor man. The words that these friends speak are not necessarily wise or good advice -- and they may even contain errors.

The second thing to note is that, in my opinion, the translation you have may is a bit free and misleading. The man speaking, Zophar, is not saying that, when we confess sincerely, God forgives only some of our sins. Zophar is not even saying anything close to that! First he tells Job that Job is not so innocent as he has just claimed to be -- and that he has deserved to be punished. Then he tells Job that God has actually been merciful to him -- and could have punished him worse.

A translation of the Bible that is highly regarded for its accuracy is the "Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition" [RSV-CE]. Here is how some key phrases from Job 11 are rendered in the RSV-CE:
"Then Zophar the Naamathite answered: '... But oh, that God would speak, and open his lips to you, and that he would tell you the secrets of wisdom! For he is manifold in understanding. Know then that God exacts of you less than your guilt deserves.'"

Now read your translation again: "God has even forgotten some of your sin." It makes more sense now, doesn't it? God "forgot" (i.e., ignored) some of Job's sins -- even though Job has not yet confessed them, says Zophar.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 04, 2002.

Hello, Joe (Anonymous) and Barb.

I would like to encourage you not to be overly hard on yourselves. I think that you may be finding yourself guilty of sins that you have not committed, at least subjectively speaking.

Joe, you wrote: "I know that I did not fully understand what that pill can potentially do when we used it ... Do you think I have been excommunicated from the Church for the last three years without knowing it for participating in a potential abortion?"

The answer is, "Absolutely not!" You cannot excommunicate yourself unless (1) you really are instrumentally involved in an abortion, (2) you deliberately and freely choose to be involved, and (3) you know that the penalty is excommunication.

In this case, (1) you don't even know if an abortion occurred. [An abortion does not often occur when the "morning-after pill" is used, simply because a woman is infertile during most of her cycle. Even when fertile, she does not necessarily become pregnant through an act of intercourse.]
And in this case, (2) you did not choose to be involved in an abortion, but probably only in an act of contraception. [That was wrong, as you know, so I join the other good folks who have urged you to confess what you did.]

Barb, I wish you the peace of Christ. I hope that, after reading what I am going to say, you will not feel so badly. You wrote the following (quoted) words about what happened when you were a teenager:

"I had no idea that the pill in many cases actually causes abortion!"
[Actually, Barb, oral contraceptives (OCs) do not "in many cases" cause abortion -- but only an unknown, but very small percent of the time. (More about this later)]

"The sort of pill I was taking prevented pregancy by preventing the fertilized egg (a tiny little life) to attach to the lining of the uterus."
[Actually, Barb, no pill except the "morning-after" pill is intended to do this routinely. The kinds of OCs that are taken before intercourse are abortifacient only as a backup-action-to-a-backup action. First they try to suppress ovulation. Then, if necessary, they try to prevent sperm from reaching the fallopian tubes by clogging the cervix with mucus that is tough to penetrate. Finally, if still necessary -- and only if fertilization occurs -- they try to make the endometrium (uterine lining) inhospitable to nidation [nesting] of the baby.]

"I was told the pill prevented ovulation (I told them I didn't believe in [abortion [?]] so they came up with the lie)!"
Actually they told you a partial truth, as I just explained above. They hid 2/3 of the truth from you -- including the most important fact (the potential to cause an abortion).

"Furthermore the so-called break-thru bleeding which occurs sometimes when taking the pill, is now believed to be the actual expulsion of the tiny little baby from the woman. If that's true than I have experienced at least 3 (visible) miscarriages (abortions.) Who knows how many more there were that I DIDN'T see?"
I don't believe that this is correct. I'm sure that I have read that the bleeding to which you refer occurs whenever "the pill" is being taken, regardless of whether the woman is sexually active or not. [I hope that at least one woman seeing this will confirm it for me.] In other words, Barb, you should not assume that you lost even one baby, much less three, just because of the bleeding. You may have lost more than three babies -- or none at all (which I think is more likely).

The "break-through" phenomenon that you heard Miss Nellie Gray talk about on TV is not "break-through bleeding" but "break-through ovulation" -- i.e., when the pill's primary mode of attack (suppression of ovulation) fails. Pro-life pharmacists are uncertain about how often this happens -- i.e., in what percentage of cycles. Estimates vary from 2% to 10%. Then, even when this unexpected ovulation occurs, the pill's backup method (sperm blockage) usually prevents pregnancy. I believe that only in rare cases do both the primary and backup actions of "the pill" fail -- and in still rarer cases does this happen at the same time that breakthrough ovulation occurs. That is why, Barb, I think that you may not have lost any children.
Still, experiments have proved that this very rare combination of events can and does happen -- which makes it truthful to call "the pill" an abortifacient, something that all wives should avoid.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 04, 2002.

Dear John,

Thank you and God Bless you for your response to my question about the verse in Job. Yes, it most certainly does make sense.

I should have done my homework before posting the question - I posted the question without reading the whole chapter and verse. I should know better than that.

I will read Job now (my Catholic Bible)

Again, thank you, John,

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), November 04, 2002.

Oops! My mind wandered for a moment in the writing of that last paragraph. I stated:
"Then, even when this unexpected ovulation occurs, the pill's backup method (sperm blockage) usually prevents pregnancy. I believe that only in rare cases do both the primary and backup actions of 'the pill' fail -- and in still rarer cases does this happen at the same time that breakthrough ovulation occurs."
That makes no sense! I meant to write:
"Then, even when this unexpected ovulation occurs, the pill's backup method (sperm blockage) usually prevents pregnancy. I believe that only in rare cases do both the primary and backup actions of "the pill" fail -- and in still rarer cases are the conditions and timing also right for fertilization to occur."
I beg your pardon.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 04, 2002.

In response to John (JFG jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 04, 2002) - I just wanted to ask you if you knew what the Bible says about when Life begins. The common belief is that when a sperm fertilizes a cell - life begins. However, God said in His Word that He KNEW you already BEFORE He made you. BEFORE you WERE conceived! Jer. 1:5 "I knew you BEFORE I - FORMED - you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my spokesman to the world." That passage distinctly says that there are two things that occur before we are physically born. The first is that He thinks of us and determines that we shall be conceived. Secondly, in that same scripture, the next thing He does AFTER we are conceived, He appoints us as a spokesman to the world (as a Christian - to spread the gospel) while we are STILL in our mother's womb! I believe that God had Jeremiah write that passage so that we would know that life begins even before fertilization -conception. And why would He do that? God did that because in another scripture, the Bible says - "It is God who has made us and not we ourselves." We are still a rebellious people like the people who wanted to build the tower of Babel. WE want to be in control instead of God. WE determine WHEN, and IF we are going to have children. WE even determine how MANY children we are going to have. It is for this reason that the Catholic church frowns on ANY type of contraceptives. WE are not God. Only He should be the one to determine those things. He is wiser than any of us. That is also why fornication is wrong. If we use any type of contraceptives either in marriage or before we are married, we are saying in essence - I am God - I know better than God what is good for me. (How many Christian marriages have ONLY two children - a boy and a girl? This is the same number Planned Parenthood says people should have - did you know that?) To Joe - Excommunication is when a person purposefully sins. The accidental abortion (because you say you did not know what you were doing) probably would not be enough to excommunicate you since you did not do it on purpose. Only you would know in your heart if you had a suspicion that taking the pill might cause harm. (If you did - than that is a very grave sin.) But, the sexual relationships before you got married and the subsequent taking or using of a contraceptive would be a deliberate sin. You pre-determined you were going to use them and they are still against the Catholic religion. For those things you definitely have to make confession in order to be back in right standing with God and with the church. However, God is not so unmerciful as to NOT forgive us if we are sorrowful - for the Bible says - "If we confess our sins, He is just to forgive us. The only sin the Bible says cannot be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And that blasphemy occurs when a person will NOT repent of a sin - for the Holy Spirit is the One Who prompts us to ask for forgiveness. If we harden our hearts against what He tells us - then there is no forgiveness. (The Bible tells us that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.) I hope this has helped you. And to all couples who are using contraceptives - Did you know the Bible says that "children are a BLESSING - A REWARD from God and blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them?"(Psalm 127). Do not be as the world - trust in the Lord. Who knows whether this child that is conceived shall not be a famous doctor or writer, a Mother Theresa, an Albert Einstein.

Even the handicapped are from God - He told Moses this - "Is it not I who have created the deaf, the dumb, the lame, the blind?" (Ex 4:11 - So the Lord said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the Lord?) He also said ALL souls are mine - Eze 18:4. Know this - God makes NO mistakes - Even the so-called unwanted ones/unplanned pregnancies - God called forth. He is the only Creator of Life - not ourselves or even the devil - as in a rape or incest. Only God can create Life. To God All life is Precious. I hope this helps to clarify the seriousness of taking contraceptives, marriage, fornication, and abortion in cases of rape or incest.

Blessings - Anita

-- Anita L (manita12@hotmail.com), November 06, 2002.

Hi - Sorry I just looked at my posting and noticed that the email address is wrong - I meant to write manita123@hotmail. I accidently forgot the 3. Anita

-- Anita L (manita12@hotmail.com), November 06, 2002.

Here is the ritght one - Anita

-- Anita L (manita123@hotmail.com), November 06, 2002.